Before you all go rushing to install Vista in Jan,

  LastChip 11:03 20 Dec 2006

take a look at this:

click here

click here

click here

and at least make an informed choice.

Look at what you're getting in terms of the various Vista options available (Basic, Premium etc). Can you can justify the cost? Look at whether your present computer hardware will give you the choices you want (in particular - Aero Glass), but more to the point, look at what Vista will NOT allow you to do.

This is a quote from the second link:

"Among other harms, will focus on the danger posed by Treacherous Computing in Vista. Commonly called Trusted Computing in the industry, it is an attempt to turn computers from machines controlled by their user into machines that monitor their user and refuse to operate in ways that manufacturers don't authorize."

If you don't do anything else, at least read the second link!

If you want to BE controlled, rather than BE IN control, go ahead and spend your money on Vista.

Finally, forget all the hype from the media. That's part of the very effective (and massive) Microsoft marketing machine. Remember, most media members receive Vista (for evaluation purposes) for free.

Really decide for yourself; do the con's (of which there are many) outweigh the pro's?

  anskyber 12:18 20 Dec 2006

Indeed. Bad Vista is a perfectly legitimate campaigning group. But, that is what they are, a campaigning group just like any other group peddling an opinion.

Having read their views, which to my mind lose some weight by relying on sensationalism, (eg your quoted section) I am more inclined to disregard them. I happen to think MS are entitled to do whatever is reasonable to protect their commercial interests. I do not feel threatened.

From what I can see Vista will do things for me that I am looking for and I do not regard the £150 for the Home Premium upgrade as expensive given the investment MS have put into it. Timing of an upgrade will be important but for many buying a new PC it will just happen just like it did for XP.

Your cautionary post is thoughtful and posing a few questions which everyone should think about. What I find amazing is how many zealots there are who simply want to bash MS and consider it their duty to make sure others do not use something they themselves do not want or use anyway. (or maybe they do!) Information is one thing the other is just plain mean mindedness.

  dth 16:14 20 Dec 2006

interesting to see the other side to the ms p/r

  Forum Editor 20:23 20 Dec 2006

like the one at BadVista, and they're all much the same.

I have absolutely no problem with anyone who decides - for whatever reason - to steer clear of a new operating system, or to wait for a while to see how it pans out. Quite understandably, many people want to be sure they know what they're getting themselves into before laying out a substantial chunk of cash on something that may or may not be what they anticipated.

I also have no problem with someone who fancies splashing their concerns all over the internet in a blog - that's what blogs are for.

All I would say is this:-

1. Remember that a blog is (substantially) one person's view on something. Others may add to it, but they're reacting to what the originator said.

2. As yourself why someone might be interested in posting stuff like that - maybe they're IT specialists, with years of experience, or maybe they're simply airing a grudge, either borne of a bad experience, or because they just dislike big companies in general - and Microsoft in particular.

3. Certainly IT journalists get complimenary software - it's part of their job to be up to speed on new launches, and many consumers value their opinions. In addition, the software companies want journalists to evaluate (and hopefully write about) their products. Good journalists aren't stupid, they don't blindly hype anything that comes their way, and they certainly wouldn't dream of becoming "part of the very effective (and massive) Microsoft marketing machine." It's offensive to suggest otherwise.

I have been a Vista beta tester since the Longhorn days - I started with the very first beta version to be distribted to a testing panel - and I have lived with every successive version. I'm used to Vista by now, and a WinXP machine looks and feels slightly strange. I've tried to break Vista in all kinds of ways, and failed and I think Im qualified to write about it, at least from a consumer's point of view. I'm not a developer, I don't delve under the bonnet, because that's not my function; people pay me to advise them about what might be good for them and their businesses, and they expect me to be open and honest. I'm not likely to jeopardise that kind of relationship by making sweeping claims for someone else's software product.

In my opinion Vista is an excellent operating system, and in time it might turn out to be a great operating system - that remains to be seen. In the meantime I'm completely in agreement with you, LastChip, when you advise people to mke an informed choice. That means looking at both sides of the critical coin, and anyone who reads a blog and takes what it says at face value will be making a serious error of judgment.

Give Vista a chance. Come the end of january and it will be out there for all to see and evaluate.

  LastChip 21:10 20 Dec 2006

I would like to clarify one point raised by our FE.

When I said, "Finally, forget all the hype from the media. That's part of the very effective (and massive) Microsoft marketing machine", I had no intention of suggesting any journalist has acted less than honourably. It was meant to indicate that journalists receive free software in order for them to write about the product. This in turn, acts as part of the marketing effort. That, (as far as I'm concerned) is a fact and was meant to be nothing more than that.

The danger is however, that people will be drawn in to the system, based on writings (whether they be blogs or publications) and in some instances, will be very disappointed with the result. This will almost certainly be true for anyone that has not researched the suitability of their machine and/or the version they are buying. There are also aspects of the operating system that may not be acceptable to some.

On the whole though, I think we (FE and I) are more or less in agreement in as much as it essential that you all look very carefully at BOTH sides of the coin and even though some writers are not pro-Vista, at least consider their views.

  t1nym4c 23:47 20 Dec 2006

Did you know if you have a qualifying PC, you can express upgrade to vista? I don't see the pont in getting it though. What is it going to do that your XP doens't?? Anyone know..

  Wolz 18:16 21 Dec 2006

I echo the above criticisms, and while we're about it, how does Microsoft justify it's war on piracy, when it is constantly being taken to court for ripping off other people's software ideas?
Doesn't make sense to me.
I don't see the point in up/downgrading either, when XP does everything I want, and has never crashed once on me.
Or maybe I've just been lucky so far.
No doubt Microsoft will make things so that future software will not function properly under previous operating systems, thereby forcing Vista upgrades.
Call me cynical, if you will.

  t1nym4c 19:17 23 Dec 2006

I think the vista will be an unstable running system, which will not be effective unless you have the premium. I think XP will last a number of years, but I doubt microsoft will make things for vista only, until many years later, when every should have upgraded, following the tracks of the development of technology these days. I seriously thing that Upgrading is a waste of time and money and I think vista is a pointless running system to have, especially if you have a bargin budget computer that can only run basic. Running windows XP will probably give you more satisfaction overall.

  Charlie Babbage 21:31 23 Dec 2006

... having just bought a new laptop and enquired whether it woudl be suitable for upgrade to Vista.

The answer was 'Yes' and I should get an upgrade voucher. However, I think it would certainly be sensible to wait at least 6 months before doing anything to allow the dust to settle.

Btw, bought this laptop at PC World who said that if I decided to upgrade I should use them as it is very difficult to install - something about the drivers. Is this true? I don't quite understand what they're on about. Presumably the upgrade comes as a CD or DVD ROM which self installs, including the drivers ... or am I missing something? I've installed quite a lot of software in the past, usually without a problem - touch wood!

  Charlie Babbage 21:34 23 Dec 2006

... click here regarding Vista drivers which answers my question!

  Kate B 21:38 23 Dec 2006

Good grief, what nonsense being spoken by PC World! Assuming you haven't got anything too esoteric on your laptop, the install should be easy - most people report that it's been fine.

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