This is very loosely connected to computers

  pj123 14:42 05 Dec 2004

I have Internet Banking with LloydsTSB and am due to get a "Chip and Pin" card very soon.

It appears that you can only change the Pin number via an ATM.

Due to all the ATM scams I do not use an ATM at all, but Lloyds have told me that the only way I can change my Pin number is through the ATM.

When I get my new Chip and Pin card I would like to be able to change the number to something I can remember without going to an ATM.

Should they not offer another way to change the Pin number?

  GANDALF <|:-)> 15:38 05 Dec 2004

'Due to all the ATM scams I do not use an ATM at all'...compared to the number of ATM uses the amount of fraud is miniscule.I have not entered a bank for 2 years, I us ethe Internet and any old ATM that I can find. Bite the bullet, go to an ATM and change your PIN. I'm sure that you will be OK.


  Vague Boy 15:41 05 Dec 2004

Could you not use an ATM sited inside a LloydsTSB branch? That at least should be secure.

  pj123 16:45 05 Dec 2004

GANDALF <|:-)>, I admire your confidence. But I am the original green one. If I use an ATM I am the one who gets caught.

Vague Boy, that is exactly what the Lloyds Bank Adviser told me to do. But I am still a bit wary. The ATM scammers can get in anywhere. I would still like to talk to someone at the bank and change my number. Mind you as the Pin number is only 4 digits it shouldn't be difficult to remember, even if you write it down in a coded version somewhere.

  jack 17:23 05 Dec 2004

Go the an ATM with a gang of your mates.
Get them to stand around you with their backs to you. Take some black tape and tape over any hole you do not like the look of ,feel the card slot and if it protudes - prize it off.
Then you will be OK - or in Jail!

  It's Me 20:47 05 Dec 2004

I don't know how you can manage to live nowadays without using an ATM. I use them everywhere I go, even here visiting in Portugal where I can get my Euros with no effort at all, in any supermarket or outside any bank.

If I go into my bank in England for cash, they act very strangely, disappear round the back to check that I have funds and generally make it annoying, therefore I don't. How do you, pj123, get your cash then?

  watchful 23:11 05 Dec 2004

You can get your money as a cashback from many stores as I do every week or at a Post Office. I haven't used a machine at the actual bank for over a year.

  Forum Editor 23:33 05 Dec 2004

is that it protects your PIN - they don't want any of their branch staff ever to know a customer's PIN for obvious reasons.

When you use the ATM (and you will have to if you want to change the PIN) you will be talking directly to a computer - the ATM's look very impressive but surprisingly the computer inside is an ordinary PC just like the one on your desk. The ATM is permanently online to one of the bank's mainframe machines, and that sends your PIN data to another secure database server - no human being ever sees the PIN.

The chances of the ATM having a scanner attached to it are slight, and in any case you can spot one easily if you check before using the card slot. If you really want to be safe use the ATM inside the branch - they are checked by bank staff.

I cannot remember when I last visited my bank's counter, I use ATM's all over the world, and have done for years. I have taken cash from my bank account at 11 0'clock at night from an ATM outside a tiny bank on a minute island off the coast of Thailand. I've never had a single problem with one of these machines and I don't personally know of anyone who has - in my book they rank as one of the great inventions of the twentieth century.

  kev.Ifty 00:20 06 Dec 2004

I deal with ATM's every day. I can assure you the "Scam's" which you fear are as rare a Rocking Horse droppings.

For maximum security, use the machine inside your local branch. Choose a pin number which is memorable, a birth date or the first 4 numbers of your telephone number.

I am responsible for the upkeep of several hundred Cash Machines, and, in the last four year's have seen... One Lebanese Loop, and two Skimming devices!

Take your Partner with you and ask the staff for advice. But DON'T keep your Pin number(written down) with your card.

I have lost count of the number of times that i have had to remove a jammed card from a card reader only to find a bit of paper stuck to the offending card on which is a 4 digit number!!(wonder what that could be??)

Anyway, don't tell anybody but, most ATM's can't read the chip on your card 'yet'.


  originalmiscellany 09:58 06 Dec 2004

What's a lebanese Loop?
It sounds fascinating!

Also is the skimming device the gadget which you stick your card into and then it remembers the settings?

  pj123 11:41 06 Dec 2004

kev.Ifty. "I deal with ATM's every day. I can assure you the "Scam's" which you fear are as rare a Rocking Horse droppings."

I must be living in a very prone part of the country (or else, we are all thought of being country yokels). In our local daily paper last week was a report of 4 ATMs having scanners attached, 2 Barclays, 1 Abbey and 1 at Asda.

One scanner was spotted by a customer and removed but, unfortunately, he was set upon by two men and the scanner taken and they then ran off.

I always get "cashback" at one of the many shops that offer it. OK, so you have to buy something to get cashback, but even a packet of fag papers qualifies.

Technically, I guess I don't need a PIN number until, of course, all shops have the equipment installed.

jack, now that's a good idea, even if I only do it to change my PIN number. I'll go with that.

Thanks all for the suggestions/comments.

I will tick as resolved.

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