US car firms ask for $25bn ?

  24/7 00:34 19 Nov 2008

I am lost for word's to be honest, the three biggest car makers in american history struggling & almost on the verge of bankrupcy..? HOW many hundred's of billions of profit have they all had & this is the result..? clearly this is the banks issue thats not helped but my god these are HUGE companies...

click here

  24/7 00:35 19 Nov 2008

Ive just noticed this "However, Republicans and the White House do not want to use the $700bn bank rescue to help car firms" now thats worrying!! so whats going to happen..? clearly there is going to be HUGE job losses either way

  AL47 00:40 19 Nov 2008

what can u do?

these companies have been so irresponsible its unbelievable! you cant bail out everyone tho, its a shame its the factory workers that will be the losers, the ceos etc still have all thier money

  GANDALF <|:-)> 10:34 19 Nov 2008

Why should a waitress, who is on $10/hr, have part of her tax taken to subsidise the car workers who are on $100k?

  robgf 11:43 19 Nov 2008

"Why should a waitress, who is on $10/hr, have part of her tax taken to subsidise the car workers who are on $100k"?

I couldn't agree more. For some reason, if a company is large, people and the government, think it's a good idea to bail it out in times of trouble.
I can understand younger people being taken in by this idea, but older people must have seen large firms wane over the years.
If I think back to when I started work, most of the large and seemingly unassailable companies from that time, have either gone, or shrunk to mere shadows of their former selves.
Nowadays the process seems to happen quicker and I fully expect the powerhouses of today, such as Microsoft and Google, to be virtual unknowns in twenty years....... Google who?

The point is, that firms rise, peak and fail, the same as countries and trying to artificially prop them up, just prolongs the death throes.
For the same reason the banks shouldn't have been bailed out, better to let them fail and have new vibrant banks appear.
Recession is hard, but governments messing with the economy just prolongs it.

  interzone55 12:21 19 Nov 2008

If the car companies go under roughly 3m people will lose their jobs, and only a tiny amount of those will have been earning $100k a year, most will be in component suppliers, and they'll be employing workers on minimum wage or less.

A big part of the problem with the US car makers is their pension and medical insurance payments, which are paid for life for retired workers.

I read somewhere that this adds about $1500 to the price of each vehicle sold by GM, which is a fair % of the total cost of the car.

  GANDALF <|:-)> 13:32 19 Nov 2008

'and only a tiny amount of those will have been earning $100k a year' may wish to revise that statement........
click here

  wee eddie 13:37 19 Nov 2008

the pile of unsold Cars!

  interzone55 15:59 19 Nov 2008

Did you actually read that link?

It's suggesting that the $75 an our figure is not true.

Actual pay is more like $25 an hour, the rest is benefits such as the health insurance I mentioned in my post above, and pensions.

The Union of Auto Workers only covers people directly employed by the manufacturers. The bulk of the 3m people likely to be affected by any collapse of GM & Ford work for the companies who make components, these people are more likely to be paid much lower salaries...

  GANDALF <|:-)> 17:45 19 Nov 2008

Line workers get $35ish/hour (steel workers were getting that in 1990). Over a 40 hr week this equates to $72800/year and with 8hr/week overtime this adds another $18900 over a 45 week year. This figure does not include health benefits which takes the total from $91700 o well over $100k. A waiter/ess would be expected to pay all her/his own health benefits. GM did try to take on workers at $17/hr recently but the union are still fighting this.


  interzone55 19:59 19 Nov 2008

That's as maybe, but far more workers will work in the allied industries that won't be as unionised as the motor industry.

You've got to wonder if these wages aren't the main reason for the current state of affairs though, in the same way as the Rover plant.

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