Tories change their minds about+punishment?

  Cymro. 11:28 30 Jun 2010

click here

Vast sums are being spent "warehousing" people in outdated prisons without any proof it protects the public, Justice Secretary Ken Clarke is to say.

Many people on this forum are what I have called the "hang em and flog them brigade" just lock them up and through away the key etc.

But now even the Tory party is have having second thought about putting small-time first-offending petty criminals in prison when the public benefit very little from it.

  spuds 11:33 30 Jun 2010

Same hymn sheet, different government.

  birdface 11:43 30 Jun 2010

Of course it protects the public if they are not around to cause more problems.
I have to agree with Spuds.

  ronalddonald 11:53 30 Jun 2010

An eye for an eye and tooth for tooth need to go to the body parts department store.

no seriously

When they had hanging did it deter others from crime is their any evidence that it did, if it did i would be in favour for hanging.

yet many would not, if a crime is caught on camera and it can be clearly seen someone being killed then yeah i guess the guilty people should be hanged.

There was a time they were gonna have prison ships, yet that would not deter crime.

How do you deter crime, cameras catch people yet the police argue its a deterrent yet criminals are still committing crime regardless of cctv.

  Cymro. 11:55 30 Jun 2010

They just come out to commit more crime. Prison is the university of crime. 60% of first time offenders reoffend after their release from prison. So how does prison work to protect the community?. It only makes the problem even worse and costs the taxpayer even more in the long run.

  spuds 12:06 30 Jun 2010

What are the alternatives!.

We hear of 'PayBack', 'Giving back to society' and 'Work in the Community', but is the administration of these schemes more for the offender or the victim?.

  interzone55 12:30 30 Jun 2010

I'll give you a small story about community work, and it's positive benefits.

A team of young offenders were charged with repainting the underpasses in the town centre. They steamed off all the graffiti and repainted them a bold grey. They made a pretty good job of it.

A couple of days later fresh graffiti appeared, but within hours it was gone and the offender was in hospital with life threatening injuries.

The result of the community work was therefore two-fold. The crew who carried out the work did it well and showed evident pride in their work. They also don't want their work sullied by others, so have taken immediate steps to demonstrate what will happen to people who carry out other similar offences.

This is an extreme example, but community work has been proved many times to cut re-offending rates, it's much, much cheaper than warehousing criminals, and the community benefits from the work...

  Quickbeam 12:46 30 Jun 2010

"What are the alternatives!."
A public birching outside the house that you burgled, or keelhauling beneath a car at 70mph for car theft, or a pasting by the local boxing champ with your hands tied behind your back to imitate your mates holding your victim for you while you looked tough would be quite acceptable to me...

I jest not.

  sunnystaines 12:48 30 Jun 2010

Prisons never rehabilitated anyone

but what it does do is keep them off the streets so decent people dont have to put up with them, well worth the high cost.

ken clark would save money if he took away their sky tv and other luxury facilities they are there as punshment.

  donki 12:55 30 Jun 2010

While i do see the point you are making regarding pride in the community. In your example you have a group of young offenders who started off by being charged with something that didn't carry a custodial term, hence the communinty service. Then ended up committing a crime such as GBH which may even be seen as attempted murder, it shows just how hard it is and there is no clear answer.

I am in two minds regarding the death penalty. I can see both sides of the argument. The stats certainlty show that it is no great deterrant but is that really the point? Some crimes are so horrific that death seems to be the only true punishment. I often read the details of some cases and think if that was my daughter or any member of my family what would i want, what would i see as justice for me and my family. Until anyone is in that position I can honestly say they wont know.

  Kevscar1 13:28 30 Jun 2010

Prison will never rehabilate anyone the way they are.At my lowest point I thought about commiting a crime to get me sent do because I would have a roof over my head, a bed, 3 good meals a day colour TV etc, That was better than living in a wrecked motor car on the motorway service.
For prison to be effective they need to take away all the luxuries, basic meals just sufficent to keep the prisoners alive and no visits. Solitary confinement 23 hrs a day. Make them so terrible that people will be to scared of ending up in one.
Won't stop every crime but I bet it would reduce it one hell of a lot.

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