A sure sign that EU leaders are having a wobble

  Forum Editor 10:11 25 Nov 2016
Locked

is when you see people saying things like this.

It's schoolboy 'ooher, you're in trouble with sir, you are' stuff isn't it? I've lost count of the number of EU figures who have said much the same thing, but in the end, it will be down to what each country has to win or lose by adopting a hard line with us.

Money speaks, as they say, and no nation is going to want to antagonise its manufacturing and service industries by excluding one of their export biggest customers.

  LastChip 10:57 25 Nov 2016

Who is this guy from Malta? A nobody that anyone even cares about or has heard of.

Clearly, he has zero knowledge of diplomacy.

The faster we're out, the better.

There's a really simple way to resolve this without all the pussyfooting around that's been happening. Invoke article 50; tell them we're leaving in 90 days and all of them will be subject to World Trade Organisation tariffs.

We'll see who jumps around then!

  Forum Editor 11:08 25 Nov 2016

LastChip

"Who is this guy from Malta? A nobody that anyone even cares about or has heard of."

He is the Prime Minister of Malta, and will be President of the EU in a couple of month's time.

"...tell them we're leaving in 90 days and all of them will be subject to World Trade Organisation tariffs. We'll see who jumps around then!"

That would be a particularly stupid thing to do - we would be the ones jumping around if that happened.

If we're going to discuss something like this it would be helpful to have some contributions that are a little more reasoned than that.

  LastChip 12:07 25 Nov 2016

FE, you may not like my methods, but they do result in action and results. Sometimes, attack is a far more effective method than negotiation.

You may not think they are reasoned, but that's only your opinion.

  Forum Editor 12:40 25 Nov 2016

LastChip

"you may not like my methods, but they do result in action and results."

In this case they would result in an appalling state of affairs - are you seriously advocating that we could possible exit the EU within 90 days of an article 50 trigger?

If you are, then no, I do not think your methods are reasoned. It makes me even more convinced that you haven't a clue as to the sheer complexity of the arrangements that have to be in place in order to safeguard British companies trading in Europe, apart from any of the other matters that need to be addressed - too numerous to mention here.

"Sometimes, attack is a far more effective method than negotiation."

In a battlefield situation, maybe, but in this context it is the very last thing we should be considering. These are political matters - a fact you seem oblivious to.

  LastChip 13:20 25 Nov 2016

Strangely enough, on today's Daily Politics that I've just been watching, a UKIP MEP said much the same as me. Apparently it's in a document he wrote about two years ago I think he said was called The Road to Freedom.

So maybe I'm not as far off course as your reasoning would imply.

You know FE, just because you think one way, does not make everyone else's view wrong. I might just have much more of "a clue" than you think.

I think it was two weeks ago on Question Time a women (I think from Money Week) said, "when we look back at history in years to come, leaving the EU will be just a minor readjustment of how we do business with the EU members.

There's much made about nothing. She (in my view) is a wise woman.

Politicians are deliberately trying to over complicate a straight forward decision by the people of the UK, as are many observers.

  Forum Editor 14:39 25 Nov 2016

LastChip

"Politicians are deliberately trying to over complicate a straight forward decision by the people of the UK, as are many observers."

Oh dear, I'm afraid that making that 'straightforward decision' was the easy part, and frankly anyone who says that negotiating our exit terms is not complicated is seriously deluded.

A lot of British businesses rely on their trade with EU countries for their existence, and an awful lot of British people could find themselves out of work if we don't succeed in negotiating the right exit terms. There are those who will say - glibly - that those companies can find customers elsewhere if we don't have favourable access to the European markets, but of course those people aren't the ones who will have the job of doing that.

I'm quite sure that we can survive and prosper outside the EU, but it will take time, and whilst the process of getting to that point is underway, we need to ensure that we don't burn any more bridges than absolutely necessary.

To say - as you did - that we can do it all in just 90 days is quite ludicrous. It's a ridiculous suggestion, and makes you look rather silly - as silly as the woman you quoted who said leaving the EU will be just a minor readjustment of how we do business with the EU members.

  john bunyan 16:00 25 Nov 2016

The issue of "free movement " , in the view of all the other EU countries, is inextricably linked to the "single market" . If we insist on "controlling our borders", and paying nothing in, there is no chance of having free access. There will be concessions that suit both parties, such as exempting cars, but our financial and banking sector will be hit hard. We "ain't seen nothing yet" , and non tariff barriers will face us as "punishment ". We will be out, but it will be painful. People like IDS who sneer at experts just show their own xenophobic, closed, minds.

  Old Deuteronomy 16:03 25 Nov 2016

LastChip

FE, you may not like my methods, but they do result in action and results. Sometimes, attack is a far more effective method than negotiation. You may not think they are reasoned, but that's only your opinion.

It's not just the FE's opinion, going with your suggestion would be economic suicide. Brexit is bad enough as it is, without doing something that stupid.

  Flak999 16:41 25 Nov 2016

The EU can pontificate all they like about what deal we will or wont get! The writing is on the wall for this cosy little club! Let's just wait and see the results of the French and German elections! If Marine le Pen and the Front National either win the French presidency and Alternative fuer Deutschland either depose or smash Merkel and the CDU then all bets are off!

That rotten edifice in Brussels will come crashing down and we will dictate the terms we want!

Personally, I can't wait!

  john bunyan 19:58 26 Nov 2016

Joseph Muscat, like all the EU prime ministers, is one of 27 EU countries political heads who will decide their joint negotiating stance with us. He was democratically elected by his people. So far, the 27 have decided to present a united front, and although the "non elected" EU civil servants will front the talks, decisions will be made by people like Muscat, Merkle etc. Whether you like him or not he will lead the EU for some months, and if you think his views are irrelevant, you are in a dream world. The EU may well concede some issues, like no car tariffs, but we will be hit hard in the financial sector and by non tariff barriers.

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