Quickbeam 07:52 09 Dec 2011

I think in the simplest terms, that's what he's saying between the lines.

Cammeron's handbag speech...

  morddwyd 08:08 09 Dec 2011

I honestly don't think, in the long run, that he has actually acted in Britain's best interests.

As has been said by many on this forum, some with wide experience of commerce and business, we need the EU more than it needs us.

We cannot influence things by relegating ourselves to the sidelines.

This is just tribalism, at the heart of so many of the UK's inefficiencies (the MoD, the NHS, the coalition itself) and is something EU members must rose above if it is to survive.

If Germany and France can co-operate, with agreed differences, it should not be beyond the cornerstone of diplomacy and compromise, Britain, to do the same.

  Quickbeam 08:20 09 Dec 2011

We must agree to disagree on this one.

I've stopped believing in the EU entirely now.

  morddwyd 08:47 09 Dec 2011

Don't think we disagree.

I've stopped believing in it too, but we're either in or out.

If we're in it must be all the way in, if we're out it must be all the way out, like Norway.

The half measures, and the sniping from the rear rank, is doing nobody any good.

  Quickbeam 08:54 09 Dec 2011

Ah! Then we are in concord over this EU Pandora's box.

  spuds 11:45 09 Dec 2011

Taking into consideration of events, past and present here in the UK, perhaps its now time to put it to the public vote as to whether we want to be Europeans or not?.

This could even be extended to other countries whose public didn't have a vote, as to whether they should have joined 'Other States' in eventually becoming or forming a party of one?.

  Autoschediastic 14:24 09 Dec 2011

Grey Goo I'm with you 100% on this! when Spain had the Peseta us brits could go there and relish our holidays on the cheap! so can anyone tell me now the prices of almost everything on spain has doubled how that is a good move.? holiday makers are staying put in the uk less money is been spent all over Europe due to the price of holidays the price of flights with new taxes & the prices of food and drink..The goverments got greedy & now they are going to pay...

I have gone off Cameron BUT he think he did the correct thing last night! the EU has simply too much power over the UK...

  johndrew 15:10 09 Dec 2011

I think Cameron has done the right thing by the country. London is a (if not the) major financial centre and for a tax to be placed on UK revenue by taxing each transaction would cause the UK harm; the likelihood of another tax increase on UK residents or business.

The Euro area has got itself in a mess by failing to ensure the correct levels of parity and maintaining good financial control across all members. It is unreasonable to expect any non-Euro member to contribute to resolving this issue. Or to put it another way, we trade with many other countries not in the EU, would it reasonable to subsidise any one of them in the event their currency got into trouble; I don't think so.

As I remember, one of the ideas of the Euro area was that if one area got into difficulty the remainder would come to its aid; such aid did not include non-Euro members of the EU.

As for the 'experts' in the Labour crowd who not only sold our gold reserves at a knock down price but also depleted our savings (and left a note bragging about it), they should consider the damage done during their reign which has aided the current difficulties we have and be substantially quieter with their 'perfect' advice.

  Quickbeam 15:34 09 Dec 2011

Well the only voices I've heard against the use of the veto has been from our own MEPs camp, that says a lot.

All the TV coverage has it portrayed as quite beneficial for us and even Ming Campbell agrees that a sell out would have been disastrous.

More importantly, the EU leaders aren't openly condemning us, seething quietly beneath the surface I reckon, so that suggests that they need us sometime in the future.

  morddwyd 16:06 09 Dec 2011

"the EU has simply too much power over the UK..."

That's like saying that Central Government has too much power over councils, or, to be a bit topical, that Westminster has too much power over Scotland/Wales/Ulster.

We voted to join the EU, and we abrogated some of our powers to do so.

If we don't like it then change it, but don't just throw our toys out of the pram and say we're not playing any more. They'll just carry on without us.

Cameron must face up to the fact that he is not in the same league as Sarkozy and Merkel, and he needs to get some allies this side of the Atlantic.

Let's face it, the Brits won't even join the alliance of conservative parties in Europe. How petty is that?

  Quickbeam 18:00 09 Dec 2011

Yes, I don't remember hearing of any of this political integration and loss of any sovereignty at the time that Heath was extolling the wondrous virtues of being a member. Thatcher had to get us a better deal out of it later on such was the lousy entrance membership that Heath got us.

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