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Poverty in the UK is tragic says UN

  Cymro. 11:40 22 May 2019

BBC link

I don't know what you make of what this chap says but I recon he right The UK's social safety net has been "deliberately removed and replaced with a harsh and uncaring ethos", a report commissioned by the UN has said. Special rapporteur on extreme poverty Philip Alston said "ideological" cuts to public services since 2010 have led to "tragic consequences". The report comes after Prof Alston visited UK towns and cities and made preliminary findings last November.

  Quickbeam 14:22 22 May 2019

And we still say a socialist government would be bad.

These are the reasons why May fears one...

  Forum Editor 15:11 22 May 2019


"And we still say a socialist government would be bad."

I certainly do, and anyone who seriously thinks that poverty would be eliminated by a Socialist government is quite frankly deluding themselves.

Open your eyes, and look at the economic progress made by countries which had socialist regimes, and are now embracing capitalism. Since the Chinese government began relaxing its socialist grip, average incomes have risen by a factor of 12.

In 1995 just over 90% of the Chinese population was living on a daily income of around £4. Today.less than 30% of the population lives on that figure.

In 1992, 33% of Russian families were living below subsistence levels. Twenty five years on from the collapse of the Soviet socialist system, that figure had declined to 13.4%, and it is still declining.

Socialist governments, by their very nature suppress enterprise and that leads inevitably to lower incomes. Enterprise drives economic growth, and with proper policy planning the resulting increased tax revenues enable a better social care ethos to develop.

  rickf 15:43 22 May 2019

FE, totally disagree with you. Since 2010 under the Tories food banks have increased year on year. Guess who botched the Universal Credit system. Of course you are talking about the social policies of socialist countries of old. Move on with your thinking. Capitalism as we know it is failing across the world not least in the US. The worst traits of Capitalism are found there and we are following suit in the UK. You have been to Singapore as you have said. I bet you only saw on side of the country. The poor and less well off are suffering under it's form of Capitalism. The divide between the rich and the poor has never been wider.

  Quickbeam 15:50 22 May 2019


I'm talking about a spell of UK socialism, not a Bolshevik rebelion!

  Quickbeam 15:55 22 May 2019

But everything is in flux just now.

Prior to 29th March, it looked like we'd returned to a two party setup, but an election right now would be the most unpredictable UK election ever.

  Forum Editor 23:36 22 May 2019


"FE, totally disagree with you."

You are perfectly entitled to do that, but I invite you to point me to a single country that has seen poverty eradicated, or even substantially eradicated as a result of having a socialist government - either now or in the past.

The Oxford English dictionary defines socialism as "the set of beliefs that states that all people are equal and should share equally in a country's money."

You presumably agree with Quickbeam, who thinks a "spell of UK socialism would be good for us". It didn't turn out to be good for us the last time it was tried. Between 1997 and 2010 the Labour party certainly reduced poverty levels among children and the elderly, but it was done with huge increases in spending on benefits and tax credits. Where did that money come from? It came from the tax revenues generated by profit making private enterprises, and from the pockets of ordinary citizens who worked for those profitable enterprises.

Unemployment rose during the same period and there were two economic downturns. No Labour government has ever left office with unemployment figures that were lower than when it came to power.

  Quickbeam 06:24 23 May 2019

Ah... So we'd be wise to have a permanent Tory government then, but your acknowledgement that we're entitled to disagree with you, provided that we repent, is trully a great magnanimous gesture!

There have been plenty of failed Tory governments over the modern post war period, the current one being the worst by far.

As I said above, the big two, in an election tomorrow, would both be likely to have to cosy up to the Libdems to form a government. The Libdems are centrist, but compared to the current Tory party are on the far left. That'll do for me...

  rickf 07:46 23 May 2019

FE, "You are perfectly entitled to do that, but I invite you to point me to a single country that has seen poverty eradicated, or even substantially eradicated as a result of having a socialist government - either now or in the past." Same old rhetoric.

  Quickbeam 08:14 23 May 2019

The rise of Corbyn is directly linked to the decade of stagnant wages softly labelled as 'austerity measures'. In this country we traditionally swing from one extreme to the other as a counter against the previous regime.

The Tories claim to be correcting the previous profligate period of socialism. The Socialists always claim to be correcting the previous fat cat period of capitalism.

And so the political pendulum swings, I thought it was obvious that it's reached it's maximum swing early on this sweep, and could well stall on the way back this time.

If there's one thing that Brexit has brought us positively, is the realisation that we need to end the right of the big two to govern by it being 'our turn next'. This to me is the great revelation of Brexit, that it's our system that's at fault more so than the EU that we're currently busy blaming.

Interesting time ahead...

  Quickbeam 08:21 23 May 2019

Is Socialism now more popular than Capitalism in today's Britain?

It doesn't matter what the historical facts show, when people go to vote, they only think of their own personal situation at the current time, and how they will benefit personally, and capitalism hasn't been too kind to us plebs lately.

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