Lies, dammed lies and statistics

  john bunyan 12:41 02 Dec 2019
Answered

Every party in the GE debate is promising more spending. The country’s credit card is at 86% of GDP , nearly £2 trillion, costing £40 billion a year.

Labour has the biggest so called costed budget, and add items daily, such as £58 billion for WASPI wives, and today 1/3 off rail fares , saving some people £1000 a year. Nice except that even non rail users will have to pay.

Lib Dem’s are a bit more honest with a 1% increase in income tax for NHS . SNP proudly say they already are ahead on Uni fees, prescription fees, welfare, but forget that they get well over £8 billion extra above local taxes from rUK.

The greens want £100 billion for climate change alone!

The idea that all the extra will come from the rich and companies is ludicrous.

It is all very depressing. We must pay our way and stop clocking up a massive bill that could add £30 billion or more to our interest rates and no prospect of bearing down on the outstanding amount. Germany is at 60% - a few others are higher, as have we, but only at times of war etc.

  Aitchbee 13:32 02 Dec 2019

The only statistic that matters for me and millions of other voters [I dare say] in this General Election is that 52% voted to leave the Eu in 2016 and it hasn't yet happened!

All of these other so-called promises are pie-in-the-sky!

  canarieslover 13:40 02 Dec 2019

I'm old enough to remember the Labour government of Harold Wilson. Top earners were being taxed at 19/6d in the £1 so many moved abroad and left 'average Joe' to pay extra tax to make up for the tax exiles. I read last week that a couple of companies have already moved their registered headquarters abroad as a precaution. Will we end up with every major company making as little contribution from their turnover as Amazon, Apple etc are already doing. I certainly wouldn't blame them, but I would certainly be jealous because I can't do it.

  Forum Editor 13:53 02 Dec 2019

"Germany is at 60% - a few others are higher, as have we, but only at times of war etc."

Quite a few others, actually.

Japan has the world's highest national debt - currently running at around 234% of its GDP.

Greece comes next, at 181%

Canada is running at 83%

Bahrain 88%

Belgium 101%

Brazil 88%

Cyprus 112%

France 96%

Italy 130%

Jordan 95%

Lebanon 149%

Portugal 120%

USA 106%

Venezuela 159%

No country can exist without National debt because to do so would mean gathering more tax revenues to maintain public service levels, and that would mean raising taxation to the point where an economy might collapse - higher taxes lead inevitably to inflation, as people struggle to pay and demand higher wages, which lead to higher prices, which also fuel inflation and so on.

To have a healthy economy you need a nation of traders and spenders - sell lots of goods and services, and get citizens to spend their money in the economy. Sell more abroad and import less, and you'll have a healthy balance of payments. Busy manufacturers and service providers produce more tax revenues - both corporate and private - and that enables you to pay down your debt.

Simple, isn't it? (Not)

Political parties make promises at election time because they want us to vote for them - they know that we all want better living standards, better law and order, and better health services. Opposition parties tend to go for broke - promising almost anything to get into power. Once they are there, of course they can't possibly fulfill all those promises, so they invent excuses - they didn't realise what a mess the previous government left them being a favourite.

As electors, we need to understand all that, and make our decisions based on a pragmatic assessment, rather than expecting politicians to do exactly what they said they were going to do. We're not children, and whingeing about politicians being a bunch of lying toads is going to get us nowhere. Of course they tell lies - politicians all over the world do it, and have been doing it for hundreds of years.

If you want perfection, you're on the wrong planet

  Pablo de Catio 14:12 02 Dec 2019

FE

Spot on.

  Pablo de Catio 14:16 02 Dec 2019
Answer

We need to slightly increase income tax across all bands. Keep national insurance at current levels and increase vat to 25%.

We need to have a serious think. We have to reasonably live within our means.

  john bunyan 15:09 02 Dec 2019

FE

Agreed in the main BUT if you make an analogy with personal budgets, really serious borrowing should only be for major items like houses or maybe a car. Day to day spending should not exceed income . In the private field so many make the mistake of “ I want it NOW” , and buy phones for £1000 or other items where a cheaper one is more affordable. Similarly as a country there is no need to borrow massive sums to renationalise industry thinking that Government can run things better. Venezuela proved that.

We are not in a crisis and no doubt borrowing costs will rise if the National Debt gets too high. Why should we inflict such debts on our grandchildren?

Let’s borrow for sure fire necessary capital projects for essential infrastructure etc but we must either pay more tax or cut spending on day to day items. As you say, politicians just won’t face that and we won’t vote for it in the main so we have a problem.

It will be a pity if people believe in the huge magic money forests and vote for “ pie in the sky” , to mix metaphors

  rickf 15:21 02 Dec 2019

You don't mention the Tory lies??

  Old Deuteronomy 16:09 02 Dec 2019

rickf, I was thinking along similar lines; Lies, damned lies, statistics and Boris-speak.

  Old Deuteronomy 16:10 02 Dec 2019

Last post was not intended to look like a quote.

  john bunyan 16:15 02 Dec 2019

rickf

You did not see this link on the other thread:

Ginger dug

They are all failing to say how they will pay. Although the Tory Party is promising less , they ludicrously say they won’t increase income tax, National Insurance etc and indeed will cut some at the lower end of earnings.

I find myself with no Party to vote for . My local MP is an ERG member on maternity leave and is nowhere to be found for questions. As a Democrat I very reluctantly accept the Leave vote, but the Brexit and Tory parties don’t suit me. If Labour had a non Marxist/ Communist leadership I’d vote for them but just as the Tories are too far right , Labour is far too Left but more so. The LibDems have no credibility on leadership so I’m a bit stuck.

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