Leavers- hope you are pleased still

  john bunyan 22:52 30 Jul 2019
Answered

The exchange rate is dreadful:

exchange rates

This will cause rises in fuel and many other things. A no deal Brexit is a disaster for so many ( just for example sheep farmers facing 40% tariffs and potential wipe out; Vauxall may move away from Ellsmere Port; many other huge problems. Gove says Government is working on the assumption of no deal; Scotland very likely to press for independence.

Not wishing to sound “cup half empty “ but do Leavers really accept that a No Deal is worth it?

Labour is now virtually a Marxist Party and Tories have been taken over by a hard right faction. The worst political situation I can remember. An election would most likely result in a hung Parliament again. I’m sure FE will say all is well etc, but I am depressed.

  Quickbeam 21:14 01 Aug 2019

It's pretty obvious from the riven state of the country that this is never going to become in anyway a settled matter by simply bullying through the most hostile version of Brexit out of shear desperation by arguing that anything is better than nothing any pretending that once it's done it's over. If we're divided now on the method, we haven't seen anything compared to what discord there will likely be the morning after a forced no deal.

If we can't have anything that is even as much as questionably better, why the hell are we insisting on having nothing? Would it have seemed reasonable for Oliver Twist to have said, 'Please sir, can I have less?'

Our present Brexit stance akin to going into your employers office and demanding a better employment contract that gives you more security with some say in your future productivity. But after spending months at the table, and with a mutually reasonable offer having been rejected, coming out punching the air in jubilation at our new highly prized zero hours with no say contract!

  Forum Editor 22:50 01 Aug 2019

"...the UK can revoke article 50 and the EU would be pleased to have us."

Our Government wrote to every household prior to the referendum, promising that the outcome would be honoured. Almost three quarters of the electorate voted and of those, 17.4 million people voted to leave the EU.

It was the biggest democratic mandate for any course of action ever directed at a UK Government. It would be political suicide for any government to consider breaking the promise that was made and ignoring the democratic decision of the voters.

  Quickbeam 06:53 02 Aug 2019

It's not proving to be the simple delivery that that government told us that it would be though.

It's a massive problem, it could have been moved on from and have us working on the future trade deal had they accepted the withdrawal agreement that the present government negotiated. But they didn't.

But now three years on, with another government to the one that made that loose promise, another government that lost it's majority within a year of the vote in a failed attempt to confirm it's Brexit mandate, and as of this morning down to a single MP and likely to loose a few more should the government continue to pursue a desperate no deal strategy that's now openly admitted to be a full on 'save the Tory party' tactic, it's sort of hard to try to argue the simple democratic point of three years ago has any credibility left in it when no deal is now the government's primary option.

My gut feeling is that a no deal Britain will bring us the worst case scenario of an even more bitterly divided Britain than any other resolution to the mess we've gotten ourselves into.

Casual talk of 'well this is what we've voted for and that's that' is no longer the case. Brexit 2019 is not the Brexit promise of 2016, or anything remotely like it.

  alanrwood 09:35 02 Aug 2019

FE, you are trotting out the same ridiculousness argument.The country voted to leave without any details of terms, In fact the Leavers said it would be the easiest deal in history and promised £300m a week for the NHS. Neither have been even remotely fulfilled. No one knew in anything but the vaguest terms what would happen.

It only seems sensible now that the terms are more explicit to ensure that the majority still wish to go through with it. Are people not entitled to change their minds or is everything fixed in stone. If so we would have a permanent parliament if decisions taken in one election could not be changed by another.

How can you say that it would be political suicide to ask the people again. Only the die hard total Brexiteers are frightened that they might not get their own way.

  Old Deuteronomy 11:05 02 Aug 2019

Have to agree with Quickbeam. Also, Labour need a new leader and we need a General Election, so we have the opportunity to boot out the self serving arses intent on destroying our economy.

  Forum Editor 12:39 02 Aug 2019

alanrwood

"FE, you are trotting out the same ridiculousness argument."

With respect, I am simply 'trotting out' the facts.

  1. The nation was asked a simple question - should we remain in the EU or should we leave the EU.
  2. There were more than 30 million votes cast, and 51.9% of those were in favour of leaving.
  3. The European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 completed its passage through both Houses of parliament on 20th June 2018 and it became law four days later.

The decision to leave was democratically arrived at, and the government had previously promised that the will of the people would be implemented. It didn't say that there would be a chance to change our minds if some of us didn't like the terms negotiated.

Both major parties have stated that they would not contemplate a second referendum asking the same question - as things stand, the law states that we will the EU on 31 October. Whether we have a deal or not is irrelevant in that context, and in theory our government does not need to take any action at all - it can just let the inevitable happen.

In reality there are all sorts of options, and I won't waste your time detailing them here - we'll all hear about them many times in the coming weeks. We are about to live through one of the most important political periods our country has ever experienced.

Personally, I am suffering from Brexit fatigue, and i'm sure I'm not the only one by a long chalk. I just want the whole thing to be over with as rapidly as possible, so we can stop living in some kind of limbo.

  Quickbeam 14:17 02 Aug 2019

A simple question with no simple answer.

But I can agree about the fatigue...

  QuizMan 15:03 02 Aug 2019

Going back over old ground, I remain convinced that those that voted leave, did so from a socio, not an economic standpoint. I can almost guarantee that the financial impact played little or no part in the decision making. As an island nation(s) our situation is very different from those on continental Europe and we have a stronger notion of national borders, hence the wish to return to national independence is much greater.

These days, I hear very little about this aspect in any newspaper or on any TV station. The whole debate centres around the monetary impact. That is no bad thing and why I suspect an about turn if we ever get to the stage of a 2nd referendum.

  Govan1x 16:15 02 Aug 2019

Quickbeam

My gut feeling is that a no deal Britain will bring us the worst case scenario of an even more bitterly divided Britain than any other resolution to the mess we've gotten ourselves into.

Don't you think remain will bring the worst case scenario as well.

It has to end and the sooner the better. If Boris could come up with a good deal that would keep everyone happy.

If the EU does not want to give us that then we have to go for a no deal.

All those that said a good deal is better than a bad have it right.

But if the EU does not want to give us a good deal then we must leave.

That is what we voted for so that is what should happen.

  Old Deuteronomy 16:20 02 Aug 2019

It has to end and the sooner the better. If Boris could come up with a good deal that would keep everyone happy.

No matter what he does, he will not make everyone happy and the country will remain divided.

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