Law on the pavement and CSO's

  Miros 16:56 11 Feb 2008

I have just read a posting by a member complaining about being fined for riding his bike on the pavement (unfairly he says) by two Community Support Officers, whose actions on the face of it I would applaud.

It got me to wondering and hoping that these same people (Community Support Officers) could enforce the law on litter dropping. The more frequent they fined litter droppers and the more it was published the more effective I think they would be.

As an example some years ago while visiting my soon to be son inlaw in Burlington, Ontario, Canada. and noted how litter free were the streets, when I made comment on this and asked why? He ( a born and bred Canadian) looked at me extremely puzzled, and explained it's the law, I explained that it was the law in the UK also, but not enforced. He went on to explain that there, drop litter and you would be fined on the spot, no court case required, if you could not pay there and then, you would be arrested until someone else came and payed your fine.

At that time I think in theory the fine here in those days was £1000 but not enforced, an idle threat. In Burlington it was only $25 but enforced and effective. I'm going back about 15 years ago so I stand to be corrected on the £1000 here. But the principle remains.

My Canadian Grandsons could not get used to the amount of 'garbage' on our streets when first they visited.

I think it is time to put a stop to it.

  oresome 17:10 11 Feb 2008


You're approaching the problem at the wrong end if you don't mind me saying.

I don't drop litter because I was taught by my parents not to. If I went out with sweets, I had to show the wrappers when I got home to demonstrate that I hadn't discarded them.

It's all down to good parenting. We can't police everybody and everything.

  Totally-braindead 17:27 11 Feb 2008

oresome has a point but since a lot of the youth seem to be already brought up with no respect for the law or anything else its a bit like shutting the barn door after the horse has bolted isn't it?

It might be a reasonable idea for the next generation oresome but considering the attitude of some parents to bringing up children I really think trying to get them not to drop litter is bound to fail. Some seem to have no control whatsoever over major things such as kids vandalising stuff or hurting people, if they can't bring them up not to do the likes of that I really don't think that trying to stop them dropping litter will work.

We have wardens here in my town who are meant to stop people allowing their dogs to foul pavements/playparks etc but despite there being 4 people in their department all with company cars no one has ever been fined. And wander about and you can see the dog mess. Good idea but not enforced hence a complete waste of money. Sorry but littering would be the same, we have laws already against it but I cannot see anyone enforcing it.

  Miros 18:27 11 Feb 2008

I don't recall being taught by my parents, certainly nothing about dropping sweet papers, as my major childhood was spent during the second world war, when sweets were almost a no, no. Never the less I don't drop rubbish in the streets, and being an ex smoker I would never throw cig ends in the street anyway but carry them home or till a proper receptacle was found.

Your right saying I'm coming from the wrong end. but starting from your end isn't working is it? There would be no need for the proposals I sugested if your starting point was at all effective.

Totally-braindead we have dog wardens here also. I'm pleased to say they appear to have had some success, certainly far less fouling than there used to be. I am aware of at least one of my acquaintances who has been prosecuted, don't think he will be caught again.

  Wilham 18:36 11 Feb 2008

Years ago before I retired I taught under a head who was a stickler for tidiness, any litterbug was in for a hard time, and not just at school.

A colleague told of walking with this head past cars waiting at the lights, when a passenger window wound down and an empty cigarette packet flew out to land on the pavement in front of them. The head picked it up and knocked on the closing glass. Something was said and a hand meekly took back the packet into the car.

"What did you say?" asked my colleague.

The answer... "I am doing you a great favour. By taking this back you are saving £25 which is the charge round here for litter."

  Bingalau 19:49 11 Feb 2008

It all comes down to a lack of discipline and an even worse lack of punishment.

  Miros 21:22 11 Feb 2008

Your nut shelling:-)

  Stuartli 00:15 12 Feb 2008

PCSOs have certain briefs beyond which they cannot take action and which vary from area to area.

Round our way they've just been authorised, thankfully, to hand out fixed penalties to cyclists riding on the pavements.

Sadly, the parking of vehicles on the pavement still seems to have been missed out by the powers-that-be when selecting such briefs.

  Miros 02:35 12 Feb 2008

Not sure what their brief is here must make some inquiries. For sure if litter is part of that brief then they are not very effectual.

I see lots of them around here usually at least three of them often talking on street corners. Don't ask me if they are discussing the job in hand or just socialising I wouldn't know.

There seems to be no notice of pavement parking here also. I was informed by a police constable last year that they have to be three quarters over the pavement before the police can take action. But I think the law says it is illegal to block the pavement by parking on a pavement.

  User-1235809 08:19 12 Feb 2008

I think pavement blocking is a grey area. I know that it is against the law, and makes life very difficult for people in wheelchairs, and mothers with prams, and I just don't do it. But in some streets if the cars weren't parked half on the pavement, there would be no room for anyone else to drive past. There are a lot of terraced streets which were built before everyone had a car, and therefore have no provision for parking

  Bingalau 10:02 12 Feb 2008

Is there a law about women with prams, or even just a pedestrian walking over a car I wonder?

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