At last, a PM who talks sense

  Al94 12:16 17 Dec 2011
Locked

I get more impressed by David Cameron as time goes by, this was a realistic and courageous speech http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-16224394

  Quickbeam 12:36 17 Dec 2011

Even though the vast majority of us don't practice any religion, he's quite right to confirm that our ways and customs are born of Christianity, and that is how this country conducts itself.

I think I can hear a can of worms opening...

  Condom 19:49 17 Dec 2011

Well I originally clicked on this heading as I was interested to see which country had a Prime Minister who talked sense hoping we might be able to persuade him to come to the UK. I felt let down -(.

David Cameron has clearly made this speach as he wished to get people off talking about the Europe question and the complete mess he nmade of the announcement about all the "same money" he was hoping to reinvest into solving the "problem family" issue. He may find he has stirred up another hornests nest with this one.

  Joseph Kerr 02:42 20 Dec 2011

"A belief in a fictional deity is not a necessary prerequisite to living a moral life and working to benefit the wider community."

Worryingly, I have to defend the man and say that he does seem to acknowledge that.

I haven't read the full text yet; I do hope it gives me plenty to criticize too.

  chub_tor 10:52 20 Dec 2011

fourm member

If a man leads a moral life, repects other human beings and all living creatures and tries to benefit the community he is not behaving like a Christian.

I don't quite follow that statement, Christians - who are followers of Jesus Christ - are following a man who lived a moral life, respected other human beings and all living creatures and tried to benefit the community He lived in.

If you had capitalised the H in your last sentence "Christians, those that deserve the name, are behaving like Him." it would make sense to those who believe that Jesus was the Son of God and those who believe he existed but was a man who stood out because he lived a moral life, etc.

  chub_tor 15:25 20 Dec 2011

alan14 and fourm member Neither of you has read what I have written. Show me where I have said "Christianity has a monopoly on morality" or where I have said that "Being good is the exclusive privilege of Christians" I was merely pointing out that fourm member's statement that "if a man leads a moral life, repects other human beings and all living creatures and tries to benefit the community he is not behaving like a Christian." is incorrect.

Whether you believe that Jesus was or was not the Son of God he was, according to the stories handed down over the generations, a highly moral being who respected others, living creatures and tried to benefit the community he lived in. His followers gave Him the title of Jesus the Christ and His followers are called Christians. And here lies the dilemma in fourm member's statement for if I live a moral life and respect other human beings then I am behaving like a Christian - that is a follower of the Christ.

Those who attend Christian churches and indulge in "petty back-stabbing at one end, and the church Curate who beat and sexually assaulted his own children at the other end" and who thus do not live a moral life are not Christians in the true sense of the word as they do not follow the teachings of the Christ. But there are also those who attend Christian churches who do live moral lives and it is they who must be included in the particular passage I picked out from fourm member's post and which is why I say he is incorrect in that particular statement.

  chub_tor 17:24 20 Dec 2011

alan14 your quantum leap shows me that you just do not understand my argument. It is the old time classic "Woolworths are red buildings thus all red buildings are Woolworths."

My original post was to take issue with fourm member's comment - If a man leads a moral life, repects other human beings and all living creatures and tries to benefit the community he is not behaving like a Christian. and I say that is exactly what he is doing whether he realises it or not.

Christians by definition are followers of Jesus Christ who (whether he was the Son of God or was a fictionalised person) has always been described as a man who led a moral life etc.etc.) and anyone who lives according to that same code is behaving like a Christian

But that same person following that same moral life is also behaving like a Muslim, a Hindu, a Buddhist and just about every other religion you can think of. Good morals are not exclusive to any single religion but I maintain that you cannot exclude Christians as fourm member has done.

  Forum Editor 18:34 20 Dec 2011

"Christians by definition are followers of Jesus Christ who (whether he was the Son of God or was a fictionalised person) has always been described as a man who led a moral life etc.etc.) and anyone who lives according to that same code is behaving like a Christian"

That, with all due respect, is absolute nonsense.

People who live moral lives are doing just that - they aren't behaving 'like' any religious group. Some of the people may have Christian beliefs, and those beliefs may partly motivate their behaviour, but that doesn't entitle you to claim that all moral people are behaving like Christians. Doing so sends the message that in your opinion Christians have some kind of inherent claim on morality, as if there were no moral people before Christ,and that's quite obviously ridiculous.

  Forum Editor 18:38 20 Dec 2011

I came in at the end of this thread, and I hadn't read all the other posts when I made my contribution.

I've done that now, and realised that others had already said more or less the same as me. My apologies for the repetition.

  chub_tor 18:48 20 Dec 2011

F.E.

but that doesn't entitle you to claim that all moral people are behaving like Christians. Yes it does, that is exactly how true Christians behave, and it is also how true believers behave in all of the leading religions of the world.

sends the message that in your opinion Christians have some kind of inherent claim on morality, No it doesn't, I have never claimed that.

But I do agree with your final point as if there were no moral people before Christ,and that's quite obviously ridiculous.

  morddwyd 19:35 20 Dec 2011

"People who live moral lives are doing just that - they aren't behaving 'like' any religious group. "

But they are, not consciously, nor deliberately, nut they are.

Looking at opposite aspects, the Christian Provisional ITA behaved just like Islamic fundamentalists do today, trying to bring about political change by using religion fuelled violence.

Left wing Stalin behaved just like right wing Hitler, and ne followed many of the precepts of Nazi ism.

Don;t think anyone would regard him as a Nazi though, or the Islamists as Catholics!

This thread is now locked and can not be replied to.

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