HS2 Is it necessary at this time?

  bremner 12:20 21 Aug 2019

The government his two review whether we really need HS2 BBC Article

I cannot support a scheme to get some quicker to Manchester or Birmingham, that is likely to cost in excess of £100B at a time when:

  • The NHS and social care, education, policing, fire services, local government etc etc are massively underfunded.
  • The one train line into Cornwall is regularly out of action due to it passing so close to the sea.
  • Many rural communities have broadband that struggles to reach 4Mb

My list could go on and on.

What do you think?

  Forum Editor 18:19 24 Aug 2019


"The south of England benefits greatly from all sorts of public expenditure (particularly in London), Crossrail, sewers, Heathrow, Thames Barrier etc etc - which are paid for out of general taxation from all of us, North and South."

Well, let's look at some facts, shall we?

In the 2015/2016 tax year, every Londoner provided £3,070 more in tax revenues than he or she received in public spending, while people living in the south-east ran a surplus of £1,670 per head.

Tax receipts per head in London of £15,750 were almost double those in the north-east region where each person contributed £8,200. As far as public spending goes, it was actually greater per head than tax receipts in every UK region except London, the south-east and the east of England.

Put simply, London and the South East subsidises the rest of the UK. There are reasons for it of course - the City of London finance sector being the main one - but it might be better to check the facts before making sweeping statements about who pays for what.

  Dunk 18:55 24 Aug 2019


Are those tax receipts you quote just based on income tax or on all taxes levied?

  john bunyan 19:01 24 Aug 2019

This is where an Independent Scotland would find enormous problems. Scotland contributes about £300 per head per year less than the rUK but spends over £1900 per head per year more- effectively over £9 billion. On independence they would have either to cut spending heavily or raise ( assuming about 3 or 4 million taxpayers) taxes by around £2000 - 2500 per head

  morddwyd 19:45 24 Aug 2019

Just for the record, although I now live in Scotland I was born and bred south of Oxford, so I am pretty much not a northerner.

That doesn't stop me being aware of the great maw of the South East that sucks in so much.

The prosperity of the South East was built in the dark satanic mills of the north, the North East, the Clyde and the Rhondda.

  Dunk 19:51 24 Aug 2019

Not to bothered by Scotland, john, if Southern England is subsidising them as well and they want independence then we should give it to them. We'd have more to spend up here in the Northwest without them.

  john bunyan 20:42 24 Aug 2019


Economically, maybe , but look at the problems with Brexit and the NI border being repeated. Also the Defence issues are huge with Russia being a long term threat and the Scottish airfields protects us. All of our submarines including Trident, our deterrent, are based there , with no obvious southern alternative.

Maybe best to leave this diversion for a new thread if and when Indy 2 is imminent. Apologies to Bremner for the excursion from the thread

  Quickbeam 21:50 24 Aug 2019

"Not to bothered by Scotland... We'd have more to spend up here in the Northwest without them."

And so would the South of England by blowing out the north.

What a selfish lot we've all become lately. #mefirst is it...?

  Dunk 21:51 24 Aug 2019

Sorry john, but are you saying England pays for Scotland just to keep our Trident, don't we have anywhere else we could keep them, and we have airfields all over the north of England that we could use instead.

  Quickbeam 22:56 24 Aug 2019

The Trident access is via deep water sea inlets, I don't think that there is a suitable alternative in Britain.

morddwyd is the resident authority on airbases.

  john bunyan 23:01 24 Aug 2019


Too big a subject to discuss on this thread. Start one when Indy is imminent.

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