Gordon Brown: Union is 'sleepwalking into oblivion

  Cymro. 11:38 11 Aug 2019

BBC link

Gordon Brown has warned that under Boris Johnson the union of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland is "sleepwalking into oblivion". Writing in the Observer, Mr Brown blamed "destructive, nationalist ideology" and said the ideal of Britishness as tolerant "could not survive" a no-deal Brexit. "We are, at best, only a precariously united kingdom," Mr Brown wrote. I think Brown is rather over stating his case and that no such break up of the UK will happen but as one who was never a supporter of a UK it would suit me fine. Not that I expect much support on this Forum for my or Browns way of seeing such things

  john bunyan 16:40 11 Aug 2019

What are your views?

NI , if it voted substantially to join Eire would be a welcome move, but I suspect Eire want that as much a a a hole in the head, and a local civil war may ensue. Wales , so far, has shown no enthusiasm for total independence. Scotland , mainly due to their belief that “Westminster “ ignores their wishes( eg referendum on EU) and a deep dislike of folk like Johnson, May well press for a ( possibility successful from their point of view) Indy. In my view this would be a disaster for them as over 60% of their trade is with rUK ; the loss of Barnett could cause either a big drop in public spending or a huge income tax rise of about £2500 per head on average, coupled with a massive issue in Defence, exposing the North of U K to long term threats and the need to relocate the deterrent , and losing airfields needed by the RAF. I understand their frustration, and believe an Independence Referendum may well mean them leaving. For all our sakes I hope not as I really believe for both of us we are truly better together. I have always felt British rather than English, but realise that may not be the case, regrettably for some entrenched Welsh or Scots. Curious that , since proclaiming being English is somehow linked with BNP but for them patriotic

  john bunyan 16:43 11 Aug 2019

Insert not after realise that at the start of last sentence, sorry

  john bunyan 16:45 11 Aug 2019

Ignore correction. Poor proof reading!

  Fruit Bat /\0/\ 17:06 11 Aug 2019

Do we even think of ourselves as British?

Who puts British on applications / registrations? Even when applying for a new British passport I'll bet we put English Irish or Scottish.

  Forum Editor 17:09 11 Aug 2019

Who puts British on applications / registrations?

I do.

"I'll bet we put English Irish or Scottish."

Has Wales drifted off into the sea, or something?

  Quickbeam 17:30 11 Aug 2019

I'm British on all my passports. An English Briton, and both sets of parents and grandparents considered themselves to be Scots Britons, and going back to Gt grandparents from Ireland, Irish Britons.

It's only over the last decade that I've become aware that people are choosing to be more micro nationalised. Maybe that's because things like the census allow that distinction. I'm sure that when I applied for my first passport in the early '70s it actually said that the application would be rejected if you put English or Scottish. I'll stand correcting on that, but I'm sure it did say that.

  Quickbeam 17:34 11 Aug 2019

"Has Wales drifted off into the sea, or something?"

Not yet, but Boris at the insistence of Cummings, does seem to have the hatchet held high ready to drop on the mooring lines!

  Quickbeam 18:02 11 Aug 2019

We're a far cry from where we were in this animation of the world's 12 biggest empires...

  Govan1x 20:44 11 Aug 2019

( both of us we are truly better together)

There are obviously a few million Jocks who disagree with you.

Right now more than anytime ever before due probably to the Brexit fiasco or the most incompetent Tory party ever I can see why Scotland want to leave and Wales and Ireland are not that far behind.

Will Scotland be worse off if they leave probably. Will the UK be worse of if they leave the EU. probably

Nothing to say that in other scenarios that they will or maybe better off in the future.

You make your choice and you have to live with it.

Just like we are all about to do.

  Dunk 22:35 11 Aug 2019

Not sure Scotland would be worse off. They have a lot going for them, still lots of oil, fish, well educated population, and most importantly plenty of water ( to go with whisky). With climate change water will become critical for us in the future.

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