To Educate or Not to Educate

  morddwyd 19:48 22 May 2010

Some hope for the coalition when even the Concervatives on their own can't get it together!

Defence Secretary Liam Fox suggested the focus in Afghanistan should move away from reconstruction.
He had said troops were there for UK security not for "the education policy in a broken 13th-century country".

"But in a separate interview, Mr Mitchell (International Development Secretary) said .................."We need to ensure that we help the Afghan people to build a functioning state," he said.
"That's about providing basic education ........""

click here

Perhaps Cameron should collect up the hymn sheets and issue new, fully amended ones, so that all members of his front bench are singing the same song.

  Big L 266 20:27 22 May 2010


So far as I can make out,Iraq and Afghanistan deserve each other. They're both backward countries run by ancient and backward people and it'll never change. Our finest military shouldn't be in either country,and we here in the UK should be either deporting residents from these countries or put into internment camps until we either win or lose each 'war'. (See World War 2 for details of internment of foreign nationals who we were at war with between 1939 and 1945.)

This ghastly coalition of Conservative/Lib-Dem has had its honeymoon and should get the 'marriage' annulled and a fresh election started. I think the Morecambe & Wise duo running the country will never sing from the same hymn sheet and in itself shows a lack of education.

Sadly, our finest military people will continue to be killed and maimed by this pathetic excuse for a government. We should be bringing our people home and let the despots run their 10th century backward countries in whatever way they see fit. No more blood should ever be spilt by any serving military personnel by this already incompetent government.

Education is wasted in both countries steeped as it is in its 2000 year old ways. You only have to see the results of Afghan and Iraq education in the UK....kill and maime the British seems to be the order of the day.

Big L 266

  rdave13 21:00 22 May 2010

Now that is what I call a forceful rant.
The whole idea was, to my knowledge, to quell terrorism. Terrorism is the killing of civilians as a means to an end.
What would happen if the US and European troops just upped and left Afghanistan to their own devices?

  peter99co 21:10 22 May 2010

click here

Same hymn sheets?

  morddwyd 07:34 23 May 2010

"We should be bringing our people home"

I ask again, do you mean quit the UN and take no further part in its resolutions?

  bremner 08:28 23 May 2010

Are you suggesting that if we were to pull out troops out of Afghanistan that it would mean we would have to quit the UN and take no further part in its resolutions?

Because if you are then that would not be the case. The Dutch are likely to be pulling out in August click here and I have seen no suggestion that they would leave the UN.

  Big L 266 08:39 23 May 2010


rdave13....Why do we have Iraqis & Afghans in this country anyway? The UK would be better off if they were all deported back as then the UK terrorist threat would at least be substantially less than it is now. Both despotic races of people who live amongst us have no use whatsoever in our society and contribute literally nothing to its betterment. Better that they're all deported than citizens of this fine country being blown to bits on buses and tube trains.If the USA & UK governments pulled their troops out,both countries would go back to despotism in the same way they are now with USA & UK troops already in there.You cannot change backward retarded nations like Iraq and Afghanistan.Haven't we tried all this before over the past 300 years and failed miserably at each turn?Yes,sadly,we have.

fourm member....I didn't vote for a coalition government.I voted Conservative,not a Con/Lib-Dem alliance of wishy-washy politics,watered down manifesto promises,and underhanded political tactics employed by these two parties.Its just another case of political claptrap by two opposing parties forced into a marriage to keep New Labour out.I do not see this as a great election result.There are British troops in Iraq.

morddwyd....We should bring our troops home today and let these despot backward countries get on with it.We do not have to quit the UN and we should be taking part in UN resolutions to get solutions,but our troops should not be there fighting tp enforce them.Was war declared on us by either Iraq or Afghanistan? No,it wasn't,but thanks to Bush,Bliar and Gordon Clueless we are and we shouldn't be.Don't we learn anything after 300 years and several previous attempts to knock the middle east into shape?

I stand by my comments which may be forceful but which are certainly not a rant.

Big L 266

  morddwyd 08:45 23 May 2010

The Dutch are not permanent members of the Security Council, nor founder members, even original proponents, of the UN.

Unlike Iraq we are in Afghanistan, as fully paid up members of the UN, in support of a perfectly legitimate UN resolution and any withdrawal, whether by the Dutch or anyone else, results in the diminution of that body.

While the League of Nations was never likely to be a massive success without the US, its eventual demise was almost entirely due to individual nations, one by one, deciding to pull out when the going got tough.

Many believe, and I am one of them, this made WWII, if not inevitable, then at least much more likely.

The bottom line is that no matter what the visiting politicians say we are in Afghanistan in support of the United Nations, and if we wish to remain a credible influence in that body we must continue that support.

  Quickbeam 08:46 23 May 2010

"...and should get the 'marriage' annulled and a fresh election started."
The reason why they've committed to it so publicly and for the life of a parliament is that they both know that any election within 2/3 years will put Labour back in power with a huge landslide, and that will probably be for another 10 years.

Get used to the coalition folks, they won't go to the country before the humble pie has been served and digested, and the jam tomorrow is opened to sweeten the bad taste memories.

  Forum Editor 09:02 23 May 2010

and several previous attempts to knock the middle east into shape?"

There were advanced civilisations in the middle east when our ancestors were running around painting their bottoms blue. Thankfully the Romans, and later the Normans came here and knocked us into shape, or we might ourselves still be one of the "despot backward countries" so scathingly referred to.

If there's one thing that history teaches us its that what goes around comes around, and anyone who thinks that we can live in splendid isolation- politically, economically, or militarily - in today's world is a deluded fool.

  bremner 09:18 23 May 2010

You intimated in your 07.34 that quitting Afghanistan would mean us leaving the UN.

That is simply not true.

Our credibility in the UN, should we leave may be diminshed in the eyes of some countries but not so in the eyes of others.

The idea that by having troops die in Afghanistan is making the UK any safer is very questionable.

There are no terrorist training camps in Afghanistan. They are in Pakistan, Yemen, Somalia and other African countries. When will be invading them?

I belive we are in a totally no win situation in Afghanistan and somewhere down the line after many troops and an even greater numbers of Aghan civilians have been killed the UN/NATO will leave with the country in really no better state than when we went in.

We can not unilaterally leave overnight but our new government are hopefully going to be setting some sort of definable time frame for our withdrawl.

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