Credit card fraud and its detection

  bumpkin 22:31 04 Dec 2018

My last post on contrails thread makes me wonder how the fraud system works. Some years back I had my Amex card cloned. I got a phone call out of the blue asking me if I had made a £4000 purchase as it flagged up as unusual and I confirmed that I had not. OK but this must have taken a fair amount of time to spot and call me, so my question is did the fraudster actually get the goods and if so who loses out. Were it me making a genuine purchase I would not expect to have to wait hours for it to be checked and a fraudster would also know by then that it would be rejected.

  lotvic 22:49 04 Dec 2018

AFAIK and am aware - the unusual account activity is flagged up by a Computer software program and then a human phones you. I once had a phone call within minutes of my making a rather large online purchase to check it was mine.

  wee eddie 22:55 04 Dec 2018

Usually practiced Fraudsters make a number of small purchases, to confirm the Card's details and validity, before indulging themselves in luxury goods

  bumpkin 23:31 04 Dec 2018

Usually practiced Fraudsters make a number of small purchases, to confirm the Card's details

They tested it first as you say by buying petrol which went through OK and amex refunded me.

* I once had a phone call within minutes *

OK but what if I was not available within minutes, what happens then.

  qwbos 00:51 05 Dec 2018

Looking at this it looks like if the transaction gets to step 5, it'll proceed. I'd hope that the unusual transaction flag would come up as soon as the transaction hits the card issuer's server and that the transaction would stop until it could be verified through a secure process, but who knows.

The last car I bought was paid for by debit card after having pre authorised the transaction with my bank the day before. If I hadn't gone through that process, the debit wouldn't have been accepted even if I'd passed all the security checks and had adequate funds to cover the debit. It would seem logical if a bank operated it's credit cards in a similar way when a high value transaction is carried out.

  Pine Man 08:19 05 Dec 2018

The last car I bought was paid for by debit card after having pre authorised the transaction with my bank the day before.

I am with one of the big banks and when I bought my last car I contacted them the day before to pre authorise the transaction and was told that they don't do that as it is subject to abuse and could aid fraudulant transactions.

  oresome 08:32 05 Dec 2018

so my question is...….........who loses out?

The answer to that is that we all do. The cost of fraud is eventually financed by the honest customers.

I've paid for several new cars with a debit card and have neve made any special arrangements with the bank. On the first such transaction several years ago, some security questions were asked but since then the pin has been entered and the transaction has gone through.

It's fairly obvious that I've transferred money into the current account prior to the event to accommodate the purchase.

  Forum Editor 16:13 05 Dec 2018

I bought my current car with a debit card - no pre-authorisation with my bank was necessary, but the transaction server triggered an enquiry - I had to authorise the purchase on the phone. That's as it should be, transaction servers look for anomalies in spending patterns, and this was one. I don't buy cars that often. I was reassured that my funds were being safeguarded in this way.

It didn't work quite so well when someone cloned one of my cards (a different one in this case) and bought lots of fancy and expensive underwear online. The interesting and disappointing aspect of that situation was that the purchaser gave a woman's name as the cardholder, a completely different cardholder address, and still the transaction was authorised. I know all the details because my bank supplied them, which I don't think they should have done. I got the money back, but it was a disturbing incident - the cloning was almost certainly done in a coffee shop in an M1 service station.

  BT 17:50 05 Dec 2018

Watching the BBC program on TV at 9'15 this morning they showed the case of a young chap who had been mugged and his wallet etc. stolen and said that £20,000 had been stolen with his Debit Card from his account in 39 transactions on the same day. I always understood that the daily amount that could be withdrawn from an ATM was limited according to your account T&Cs I know mine used to be £500 and now with my Premier account is £1000 a day. So the question is how do they get around this to be able to withdraw more than the allowed amount. The only way I can see it is that they withdrew it over the counter which doesn't have the restrictions.

  MJS WARLORD 18:33 05 Dec 2018

ref to you last comments if the guy did get bucket loads of money over the counter I would like to know how because I just doubled the size of my home and paid a family member lots of cash in hand , I got £2.5k everytime I went in and kept getting asked if I had gone there of my own free will.

also , the bank system should block any sudden unusual activity such as that because its not normal.

last year in a restaurant a guy unclipped a little box from under his belt , I knew it was a card skimmer and he said the card machine is broke. I refused to use it and told him if he did not bring the proper unit I was walking out without paying.

the con is the skimmer takes your detail to raid your account then they bring the proper machine and say the other one stopped working.

  bumpkin 21:34 05 Dec 2018

the cloning was almost certainly done in a coffee shop in an M1 service station.

I know where mine was cloned as I had only used it at the same petrol station for that year as a lot of other places were declinig to accept it due to their charges. It also made my accounts easier to do with all fuel on one card. The card company must also know where it was cloned but what do they or can they do about it.

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