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Childcare Changes

  morddwyd 08:00 19 Mar 2014
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As I understand it, changes to childcare involve tax relief for working couples.

If my understanding is right, does this not mean that a parent who decides to stay home and look after his/her own children is subsidising someone who decides, for whatever reason, to pass this job onto somebody else?

Wasn't there something about "restoring family values"?

  BT 08:41 19 Mar 2014

Couples who are earning up to £150,000pa EACH will be able to claim this, while someone earning less than £50 pw won't. It just doesn't make sense. I really can't see that a couple earning £300,000 pa really need this.

  spuds 10:25 19 Mar 2014

Not at all sure about the above or any changes. But what I do know and see on a daily basis is the amount of creches (around my neck of the woods) offering 'free' spaces to certain age groups, because funding is apparently available?.

  Forum Editor 17:11 19 Mar 2014

BT

"Couples who are earning up to £150,000pa EACH will be able to claim this, while someone earning less than £50 pw won't. It just doesn't make sense. I really can't see that a couple earning £300,000 pa really need this."

So what would your sensible suggestion be - where would you put the maximum earnings figure, £250,000, £200,000, £150,000?

Our society now understands that women who work hard to get a degree, and develop a career shouldn't be penalised because they have children. Why should they be less worthy of a tax break because they happen to have achieved a certain level of income?

As for the £50 lower limit, if someone earns as little as that they are hardly going to put some of it into a childcarer's hand, are they? In those situations it would be far better for one person in a couple to do the earning, and for the other one to look after the child.

  spuds 23:28 19 Mar 2014

Who knows, perhaps if all this comes about, the very wealthy might consider giving any surplus allowances or funding back to the government, just like some of the old age pensioner's have done with their winter fuel allowance :O(

  wee eddie 23:44 19 Mar 2014

I reinvest my Winter Fuel Allowance. Most of it goes back to the Government - the tax on Malt is iniquitous!

  BT 08:47 20 Mar 2014

spider9

That is what I think.

FE

Why should they be less worthy of a tax break because they happen to have achieved a certain level of income?

Its the people on lower incomes who need the Tax Breaks. Having a highly paid job is very nice for the comparatively few people who have this sort of income, and gives them the lifestyle choice that they desire. For the rest of us its a matter of balancing things and making choices.

When we got married in 1972 there were none of the tax breaks and allowances that are available today. Shortly after we got married the Married Couples Tax allowance was abolished, Child Tax allowance was abolished, Family Allowance wasn't paid for the first child at the time. Consequently there was no chance that my wife should return to work after my son was born. We could never have afforded childcare costs as there was no help in those days. Consequently my wife stayed at home and looked after my son, and apart from some part time employment doing market research from home she has never worked. The only Benefit we ever managed to get was Rent Rebate of £55 a month for a couple of years. Eventually things improved, I got a better job, but most certainly NOT £300,000pa. We managed to buy our London flat and when I 'retired' ( made redundant at 60) we had money in the bank which had to support us until I was 65.

Then came the interest rate crash and I lost over £600 a month income from my savings interest, but what really riled me was the person being interviewed on TV one morning who was gloating in the fact that he was SAVING £700 a month on his Mortgage payments, and having so much more to spend on his family. Now to be saving £700 a month means that he must have been paying a huge Mortgage before that so presumably was one of the people on a pretty high income to be able to afford it in the first place. So a high earner was benefitting at the expense of me who was now £600 a month worse off.

So Tax Breaks for Very High Earners? Perhaps they should be grateful for what they have.

  Forum Editor 09:19 20 Mar 2014

"Its the people on lower incomes who need the Tax Breaks."

I agree, but I also think that a tax benefit for childcare should apply to everyone, not denied to some because they happen to be successful in their working lives.

Perhaps you think that child allowance shouldn't be paid to those people either?

Your thinking is precisely the kind of thing that drives high earners to go and work abroad. We should recognise that in a modern society there will be people who earn less than others, and some that earn more. Of course we should help low income families if we can, but not if it means penalising the very people who contribute a far greater amount to the collective tax pot.

  Forum Editor 09:43 20 Mar 2014

"If people are purely driven by cash and will up-sticks and move their families around the globe just to increase what is probably already enough income for a more than comfortable existence, then fine, let them do that."

What a simplistic viewpoint. people who leave Britain to work abroad don't do it purely for financial gain, although that is certainly a consideration - why should it not be? They move because they tire of the attitude displayed by many people in this country - you included - that of petty jealousy, and a desire to knock anyone who is successful. I've met ex-pat Brits all over the world, and they all say the same thing - they got fed up with the continual carping and whingeing from those who don't like to see others enjoying the rewards of success.

We need these people to stay and work here, we certainly don't need the 'let them go' attitude you've revealed.

  spuds 11:54 20 Mar 2014

For perhaps the odd occasion, I have to fully agree with the comments made by spider9 at 9.34AM.

How many of these so called highly successful people have left these shores only to return, because the pot at the end of the yellow brick road was not what they thought or wanted. How many of theses so called successful people have actually been caught out, as not being what they state or think they are. Only late last year, I was seeing a documentary on television about 'successful' ex-pats returning to these shores because the were bankrupt and in urgent need, and their new country was not willing to support or assist them. One particular example was a very high flyer, who had great wealth as a financial expert, yet he had to get a charity to fund him the fare home to the UK, and was at the time of the documentary, living in a London park outbuilding with nothing more than a carry bag.

A late friend of mine married a South African woman, and they moved to her homeland, where they were able to purchase a rather spacious and well constructed home, including servant's quarters, all for a very much and highly reduced price, because the previous owner and his family (who happened to be in banking) were very desperate to return to the UK, because their success and financial bubble had burst. Unfortunately, my late friend didn't see his or his new wives dream through, because he got killed in what was though a motor cycle accident, but was actually a sudden and unsuspected heart attack while he was out one day.

But that is all irrelevant to the post in question, but it does make me rather annoyed when we keep hearing about how very successful people think they are, and boast about that, yet at the same time success smothers their views of what can easily happen. Especially if the UK then as to pick up the tab for those returning, after they having given the fingers up to the UK, because they were that to good!.

End of rant :O(

  spuds 13:31 20 Mar 2014

Woolwell

"That sounds to me like people we could do with".

And I couldn't agree more, but what annoys me more than anything is being constantly told how successful some of these people are, yet appear in some cases they are not willing to support the country that as made them successful or provided education, funding and the rest of it while they are here.

With regards to your "how many ex-pats do you know", I know a few who are now living and perhaps still working (some having now retired) in places like South Africa, Canada, Australia, New Zealand, USA and a few other countries of their own choosing, and have since intergrated with society in those countries, some having been there for many years, including the £10 assisted Australian and assisted South African passage. They moved out to those countries, not to boast how successful they are or were, but to give a better life style for their children and possibly their children's children. (Back to Childcare?)

The other thing worth perhaps mentioning regarding as I see success, is a number of people I know in the UK who run extremely successful 'family owned and run' business's, and have done for many years. Most of those business's were started from the very bottom rung of the enterprise ladder, when self funding was the only way. Yet I have never heard any of the family member's boast of their success or personal wealth, because they see no need for it, because they just get on with what they were brought up to do and what their forefather's and mother's wanted them to do. I myself was born into a very successful family business group dating from the 1920/30's, so perhaps my views are slightly hardened on achievement of success of the past to present times. it certainly isn't jealousy, but it might be slightly bias?.

I have people living around me, that boast of success, and obviously live an expensive lifestyle to try and justify that. Yet I truly feel very sorry for some of those people, because it becomes very evident that their apparent success and supposed expertise is probably leading them into a financial crisis,or may have already, yet they do not seem to realise or even understand this, until its to late?.

Phew - what a long rant/speech that was :O)

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