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Another Malaysian Airlines 777 lost

  Al94 16:59 17 Jul 2014
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A terrible tragedy and unbelievable that Malaysian Airlines involved again.

Why are passenger aircraft flying over what is effectively a war zone with several military aircraft shot down recently?

1]: [click here

  johndrew 14:49 19 Jul 2014

BillSers

Whether there are those within the pro-Russian element with the expertise to operate such a missile system or not is open to conjecture. To my mind it is not impossible that those who had served (or may have been serving up to recently) in the Ukraine forces to now be opposed to them. One of the main points of resolution in this is whether such systems as the Buk 11 were/are present in the areas in control of the forces in question. Additionally the actual version of system is equally pertinent. Both sides of this Ukraine argument have much to lose or gain depending on the outcome of the investigation. If Russia supplied the system directly to the pro-Russian element then it will suffer an even greater penalty regardless of its intentions.

From the news and pictures I have seen it would appear the crash site has not been secured. In any accident it is imperative to secure such an area to prevent loss of evidence, looting/theft and, sadly, tampering with bodies. It would appear that those with any level of control in the area are either totally unwilling to cordon the area or have no comprehension of the needs. From the little I have seen it would appear that some luggage has been deliberately opened and from this I can only presume that personal belongings and other significant material may well have been removed.

I can fully understand that where bodies and body parts are in exposed positions (on roofs, in gardens and similar) they need to be secured to a safe facility. This action is normally taken by competent persons who would label the body/part with its location and other data for later identification. In general no other disturbance of the site would be made until a team covered the ground recording and making such recovery as necessary. These tasks are far from pleasant but absolutely essential to gain an accurate data for analysis of the cause and effect.

  BillSers 15:17 19 Jul 2014

What I don't quite understand is why aren't these incidents seen by satellite? Too much cloud perhaps, but you might have thought the explosion would show up. There's about 1,107 satellites that provide civilian communications and 792 for military communications,and there's some seven hundred of them that are placed into geosynchronous orbit. That's a lot of coverage. Had it been picked up the origin of the missiles' flight-paths could be traced. I say plural because it's believed to have been two rockets.

  onthelimit1 15:35 19 Jul 2014

BillSers

I'm sure that's happening, but behind the scenes for now.

  pavvi 15:44 19 Jul 2014

I suspect that cabin and flight crew felt discretion was better than informing everyone. They are damned if they do and damned if they don't.

As far as this desperately sad situation is concerned, the flight path that MH17 took is an established civilian route - one that I have been on many times in flights from Asia, and some during the present situation. It is often assumed that combatants should know the difference between a civilian and a military airplane and the plane will have had a marker stating what flight it was.

  bumpkin 16:46 19 Jul 2014

I suspect that cabin and flight crew felt discretion was better than informing everyone.

I would not have thought they had time anyway if a missile attack. Even if they new it was imminent their concentration must have been on avoiding it if humanly possibly which sadly was not the case.

  bumpkin 16:50 19 Jul 2014

What would they say anyway? "We are about to be hit by a missile, please remain seated and fasten your seat belts"

  john bunyan 16:55 19 Jul 2014

Although the airspace above 30,000 ft. was free to be used, many airlines chose not to use it see:

Airlines Ukraine

Those that did use it are technically correct but no doubt feel that their competitors were wiser, with hindsight. The behaviour of the de facto "authorities" on the ground is an utter disgrace.

I would have thought it prudent to co-opt as many as possible of the experts who were involved in the Pan-Am 103 Lockerbie plane crash into the international investigation team, as although that was a bomb and this is a missile, there are many similarities. Experts from police, forensic, air investigation and other fields would be invaluable in this latest tragedy.

  spuds 17:14 19 Jul 2014

It might sound hard, but saying that there is a safe corridor or civilian route doesn't actually guarantee anything, and the airlines should or already know this. In fact going on the link provided, some major airlines have already changed their flight plans, and perhaps added further costs to their budgets?.

All it need is one small error, either human kind or engineering malfunction and there is a disaster. You can have all the 'experts' you would like or want around a table, discussing things, but the unknown will always be there.

Off subject, but how many drones have been sent in anger, and how many have achieved the results anticipated. Yet nobody really seems to care or even notice this?.

  bumpkin 17:15 19 Jul 2014

Unless it was an accident which I doubt then a political move by one side or the other. Accidently firing a ground to air missile of that capability seems incredibly remote.

  john bunyan 18:15 19 Jul 2014

The only accident (if you call it that) is that the dissidents thought it was a Ukrainian aircraft. See

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