<nobr> incorrect HTML or is that just <bs>

  Pesala 12:33 25 Oct 2003

When I posted the answer given by Martin to my text wrapping problem on the Opera Forum I was told "nobr is not correct HTML. It is better to use span>25-9-2003 /span> and declare
span {white-space:nowrap;} in style sheet."

I am using Nested Tables as the HTML output type. Do I have a style sheet? Where is it? What is wrong with using nobr> codes? It works fine.

  PurplePenny 13:17 25 Oct 2003

The tag isn't official in HTML 4. Opera used to support it! Try running the page through this:

click here

" W3C MarkUp Validation Service; a free service that checks documents like HTML and XHTML for conformance to W3C Recommendations and other standards. "

If you have a style sheet it will have the extension .css - it is where you define all the page style attributes.


  Pesala 13:42 25 Oct 2003

I ran this page click here though the validator and got 249 errors. I don't think there are even that many lines on the page.

Either NOF is producing garbage or the validator is producing garbage. I know which program I will choose to ignore. The fact is that my page displays just fine in IE or Opera so what is the use of saying that the code is full of errors?

  Taran 14:22 25 Oct 2003

the reason I didn't suggest the < nobr > tag to begin with is that it is not a reliable method for browsers to interpret.

The code validators can be a little too strict for some people and browsers these days normally cover up some pretty horrific coding.

Keep in mind that any WYSIWYG editor will not prevent you from making mistakes in terms of what should go where and how it should relate to the rest of your page.

All WYSIWYG editors can allow the user to introduce awful code. Specifying table heights is one prime example. Just because you can does not mean that you should. You control the height by specifying cell height or by using spacer images, among other methods. The end look may be the same but the validators do not see it as such.

Anyway, back to the original point, the < nobr > tag works well or horribly, depending on browsers, so it is no guarantee of success.

  PurplePenny 14:23 25 Oct 2003

The validator isn't producing garbage - all it does is check to see whether your code conforms to the HTML 4 standards. I just looked at your page and it only claims to be HTML 3.2 not 4. Go to the detailed validation page

click here

where you can specify that it is HTML 3.2 - I've just run your page through that and it only comes up with 42 errors (mostly <FONT> tag errors ... but it still doesn't like <nobr>).

If you are happy with the way your page is displaying don't worry about it - I was just explaining why the Opera forum people are telling you that the <nobr> tag is not correct HTML.


  Pesala 14:44 25 Oct 2003

I just want to produce a decent website. I don't want to produce a load of garbage that cannot be read by most browsers. The validation service is about as useful as running the source code through a spell-checker.

  Pesala 12:01 26 Oct 2003

Somebody else on the Opera Web Design Forum explained that <nobr> was not standard and suggested using this method instead:

<div style="white-space:nowrap;">(24/10/2003)</div>

This also works fine. Does it conform to the HTML standard?

  PurplePenny 12:46 26 Oct 2003

It's better. The latest HTML standards are all based around the idea of taking the style and formatting out of the HTML page and putting it in a separate page - the style sheet that was mentioned earlier. So a validator might still throw that up - but at least now you are not using an unsupported tag.


  Pesala 16:55 26 Oct 2003

I will use that in future. No wish to learn about style sheets yet. The content of my site is far more important that the appearance.

If you're interested in what can be done with style sheets click here

  Taran 20:35 26 Oct 2003

Almost all NetObjects generated sites are formatted using style sheets.

Look in the source code of your pages between the <head> </head> tags for a set of instructions held bwteen two <style></style> tags. Often the first NetObjects Style tag will be aloong the lines of:

<STYLE ID="NOF_STYLE_SHEET"> or similar.

In fact, if you look in your Site Styles folder ( the default install location is C:\NetObjects Fusion 7\Styles), just about all the styles listed in there have a .CSS reference file.

On the subject of validation I generated a site some months ago using FrontPage 2000 just to demonstrate some of its features to one forum member. That site contains more code errors than you can shake a stick at when you run it through the validating process.

I was a little disappointed that nobody picked this point up (or perhaps everyone was being far too polite) because some of the issues had been deliberately included. I used the same site to test some students on certain aspects of web design to see if they could troubleshoot the underlying code.

The point I'm leading up to is that the pages will display as they were intended the majority of the time in most browsers. This is not as desirable as displaying 100% all of the time, nor is it as useful for screen readers and similar.

Validation has its uses though and while an external CSS file cures almost all validation problems, in doing so it introduces other issues.

There is, as yet, no easy answer, but the validation process should not be dismissed out of hand and you should not rely on NetObjects or any other WYSIWYG editor to output perfect code.



  Pesala 21:25 26 Oct 2003

This is the code between the Head tags on my home page. No sign of any style sheets.

<META HTTP-EQUIV="Content-Type" CONTENT="text/html; charset=UTF-8">
<META NAME="Author" CONTENT="Bhikkhu Pesala">
<META NAME="Generator" CONTENT="NetObjects Fusion 4.0 for Windows">

In my styles directory I have some *.SSF files that are simple text files defining the style used in NOF. There are no *.css files in my entire NOF directory, nor in the directory where I keep the files for my website.

BackgroundImage=AIM Background.jpg



BannerImage=AIM Logo.gif





I don't think I ever produced a perfect piece of work in my life. I'm not aiming to produce a perfect website either. If it works in 99.9% of browsers I shall be happy. I feel it would be a waste of time even to try to get it to be exactly the same as I designed, since some people like bigger or smaller fonts or turn off the graphics to speed up download.

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