Water Cooling that CPU?

  billbo_litenin 09:18 07 May 2003

Is it over the top?

  -pops- 09:49 07 May 2003

I know you think I'm an old fool, perhaps you're right but, I'll risk offering a reply:

"Is it over the top?"

Maybe, yes.

Just as a semiconductor malfunctions at too high a temperature, it can likewise malfunction at too low a temperature and there was a thread on here recently saying just that.

What you want, if you are going to those lengths, is temperature control, not just cooling. You need a system that will maintain the operating conditions at the optimum for the particular device. This is a lot more than just cooling and if you are going to the lengths of doing something like this, it would be best to do it properly.

Modern semiconductors are much more heat tolerant than they used to be. I remember years ago working with GaAs diode infra red detectors that only functioned at the temperature of boiling liquid nitrogen. Anything above that they acted like a piece of wire and conducted the same in both directions. At a lower temp, they were insulators and didn't conduct anything.


  Taran 11:09 07 May 2003

Yes it is over the top.

We don't really have the space for me to go into detail here, but...

Unless you fit somewhere into the following:

1. you have the money to waste/spare

2. you have the time to waste/spare (which is far more important in my eyes than point 1)

3. you are prepared to run the very real risk of everything going bang at some point

4. you do not rely on the one system for your main computing needs (you really want to experiment with something that can potentially kill a system dead if you work on said system regularly ?)

5. you have the inclination to thoroughly research the project BEFORE you attempt to implement it...

Shal I go on ?

Regarding supercooling and overclocking in general, my feelings have always been the same; if you want a faster computer, either buy one or buy the components to build one.

Running hardware faster than it is supposed to run nearly always ends in grief. At the very least you are guaranteed to shorten your hardware's life expectancy, despite what some over-clockers would have you believe to the contrary.

I've seen some spectacular overclocked hardware failures in my time and also the results of them (lost data and personal files). At the very least, if it all goes that strange shape of pear, you will be out of pocket to the tune of whatever hardware died. At the worst it could be physically dangerous. Aside from the possible (albeit low) potential risk of electric shock, the fumes from a busily incinerating processor are very toxic.

Finally, while hardware has advanced a great deal over the past couple of years, the software is your current bottleneck. If you want to see real speed increases, you could always look up the old supercomputer and SPEEDOS threads by flecc, where a modified Windows 98 installation goes screaming past every other computer I've ever seen, even when run on less than state of the art hardware.

It's a lot of fun and does not risk burning anything out or require exotic cooling methods and where an overclocked system is doing well to run at 2 or 3 hundred mhz or so faster than its actual speed, SPEEDOS delivers something in an entirely different league and is about the equivalent of running a system at around 8 or 10 times its normal speed for application software.

  billbo_litenin 12:29 07 May 2003

I have researched alot into it, and you have given me a great idea about controlling it.

i want to go into water cooling becasue its a means to cool more than just the CPU in one go, and its far quieter than the fans i have running constantly, i have looked into getting a fan speed controller for times when i dont want to hear the fans and i am not using the pc to actually slow the fans down, but thought about it and i have a bad memory and would probably forget to turn the fans speed up when i want to use the pc.

with my computer i plan to add a box under the computer which will house the pump and resivoir with possibly a UPS to run the system in case on power failiure. Doing this also reduces risk.

i find i have now update my computer to as far as i can on my money and found that many of the new games only need half the power my computer actually has, and i am sure that i will not need to update it anytime soon.

i do not want to over clock my computer i find i do not need to, and i have seen the risks and spectactular overheats! i do not want this to happen to me.

water cooling will not just be for my CPU, but my GPU, north and possibly south bridge of my motherboard. as they constantly of heat, and fans just cannot provide the cooling needed.

whats this software you speak of, sounds interesting.


  Taran 13:36 07 May 2003

OK, to begin with, if you don't need the performance your PC already has, the noise reduction benefits can be realised through other means and the overclocking issue can be left to one side since this is not your goal.

Dedicated cooling of the bridges is not normally necessary or even required, and if it is an issue an overboard airflow into one side of the case and out of the other is normally more than sufficient. There are CPU/GPU, hard disk and case options that do not require or involve liquid.

The very latest mainboards feature active cooling fan control as part of their BIOS, where the PC runs the CPU cooling fan at a speed appropriate to your current load.

In plain English, if you're typing in Word it slows the fan down or even swicthes it off while still keeping the CPU cool enough, but if you're crunching a big database, playing games or rendering images (among other heavy load tasks) it increases fan cooling to suit. Most good laptops sport this feature already and desktop PCs are fast catching up.

Liquid cooling is gaining ground quite rapidly but it is still a comparatively young technology. Personally, I wouldn't touch it with the proverbial barge pole, but then this is all down to individual choice. I would say here that your choice should be based on identified need and the liquid cooling systems ability to meet those requirements.

Take a look at click here for some really nice cooling solutions for your CPU, GPU, case, hard disk and pretty much anything and everything that might need to be kept cool AND very, very quiet.

Some of their products are outstanding and once a system has been set up using them, quite literally it is as close to silent as I could imagine a PC being.

I'm a little concerned about your north/south bridges and your statement that they seem to be in constant need of extra/constant cooling. If this is true, something, somewhere is awry by a very large margin.

If you want the SPEEDOS instructions as a text document, email me (click the envelope icon next to my name) and I'll forward the document on to you. It was developed and documented by flecc and its latest incarnation runs entirely in RAM via HyperOS. I'm sure he wouldn't mind me sending the file to you, but if you want to ask him for it yourself, go to the following link click here and contact him by clicking the envelope icon next to his name.

Good luck whatever you decide.



I feel that the main reasons for water cooling are not for the noise reduction factor, but rather the "Different approach" factor and the fact that few people follow this path. It is very much in the realms of the enthusiastic "tinkerer" and in my opinion, should remain so.

On another point you wish to reduce the noise by using water instead of fans? Correct me please (someone/anyone who knows more than I) but regardless of the size of the reservoir used at some point the water is going to heat up and need cooling itself. What method is used to do this? a radiator perhaps? but then the rad would need airflow and to generate airflow a fan perhaps? Does not a fan produce noise..........?

Seriously, there are some amazing coolers on the market now that practically eliminate all noise and as I speak, with a Enermax PSU with speed control, a passive Northbridge, Asus COP technology and "Q" fan where the motherboard controls the fan speed, I cannot hear my PC over the noise of my keyboard clicking away.

Maybe I should type underwater?

IMHO there are other, cheaper, more reliable and better methods of cooling than water.

  (Wardy) 06:49 08 May 2003

Water-cooling is great, running @ 18C on the CPU and 14C main board cannot be a bad thing. Also your rig noise free or as much as it can be. Plus it looks good :)

I stand corrected ;-))

  billbo_litenin 13:56 08 May 2003

I have an ASUS mainboard and all the Q-Fan and stuff is all running, yet i still have far too much noise coming form my pc.

i guess what i mean by water cooling reducing noise is that you reduce the 4+ fans down to 1.

the Chipset i find needs cooling too, the heatsink on it just does not seem to do the trick. and i do not wish to over load the PSU with any more fans.

think with what i plan to do is to run the water cooling on a seperate PSU. eliminating overload.

(if you want too look into my MotherBoard its the ASUS A7N8X Deluxe, and yes it is expensive, and no im not a little rich kid. i saved for ages for this particular type of board)

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