Cloning bank cards

  Thomo1 18:02 06 Dec 2004

Hello all, hopefully somebody has some info that could help me, and alot of people i should imagine.

Its the system of card cloning at cash-points.

My m8 has just been caught in the scam and had his account emptied.

Does anybody have any website links or general info that they can share with me/every1 to help make people aware and alert.

Pictures of what to look out for, signs that something is wrong etc etc.

I know that they insert a plastic strip into the card slot, and also the new 1 is to put a fake front onto the cash point but just wondered if anybody had any pictures/weblinks that would help.


  GANDALF <|:-)> 18:24 06 Dec 2004
  Forum Editor 19:03 06 Dec 2004

once we all have chip and PIN cards. Provided you never let anyone else know your PIN - or see you entering it onto a keypad - it is impossible to clone your card successfully. Both the card and the PIN must be used at the same point before any access to the account is granted.

It's an elegant and effective system, and although there may well be other bank account scams card cloning will not be a danger any more.

The best protection at the moment is to take a good look at the card slot on a machine that's inside your bank. These machines are checked frequently by bank staff, and are unlikely to have rogue devices on them. Once you know what a 'right' slot looks like you should be able to spot a problem pretty easily. Your friend was very unlucky - this crime isn't as common as the media would have us all think.

  Thomo1 23:52 06 Dec 2004

Tesco stores seem to be hit quite alot.

Here in Evesham (worcestershire) out local store was targeted about 2 months ago and then again only on Saturday morning!!!!!

My friend got stung at Loyds TSB in Worcester. He has visited his local bank who have told him to go to the police. Evesham police have told him to call North London police as that is where the money was withdrew. (they made a print of his card and withdrew the money at 2 cash points in North London rather than spending by card in stores), North London police have told him to contact sombody else and he is going round in circles at the minute without actually knowing what is going to happen.

He seems to think he will get the money given back to him from the bank but i think otherwise. He has a standard connect current account without any protection.

Anybody know where he stands??


PS - FE - i agree that card fraud will reduce when we all get C & P but myself personally sees this as the only advantage that it brings.
I am not convinced on the idea as somebody can watch u type the pin in and then knock u on the head outside and steal your card. Us store managers and my staff then have no way of "checkng" the card if a quick purchase is made, where-as now we at least have a signature to fall against.

It baffles me why Photo laminated credit/debit cards are not compulsary.
Royal Bank of Scotland do it but other banks say the process is far too expenssive.
Surely it would be cheaper though than all the claims made on stolen/fraudulent cards and transactions????

  Poloman69™ 00:15 07 Dec 2004

I completely agree - the best method (i work for the Royal Bank of Scotland funnily enough) would be a combination of all three devices:

Chip n' Pin
Photo on the back

I think people would be willing to pay for such services if it meant that their card was alot more secure.

The Royal mail alot should have (in my opinion) some responsibility too, as each year hundreds of card go missing by corrupt employees, as well as pin numbers etc, so evenchip & pin is not completely safe.

I will be voting on compulsory ID cards as that will eliminate some fraud occurring. Well if you have to do all 3 mothods mentioned above, and produce you ID card, criminals won't bother with cards anymore and move onto something else - like working hard in a proper job legally for once in their lives. Short term problem yes, long term, well we'll see ......

Because it isn't a credit card, your friend may have a few problems, but in the Tesco case, it was a nationwide machine, and they will be refunding any monies lost - but what about his credit rating - it took me 12 months to sort that out. The best advice is to check with his bank where he stands on that one - i guess it was barclays as you say he had a connect card - Barclays are pretty good on that front, as mine at the time was also a connect card.

Anyway, any further probs let meknow or any advice you may need. Hopefully th RBoS will be looking into my idea soon - waiting on an IT freeze to finish before we can put other ideas forward, then hopefully they may look into bringing it in - and if compulsory ID cards do come in they will work alongside them. Other bans can only follow.

After all, would you pay say £5 for a card you can be sure of?

  Poloman69™ 00:20 07 Dec 2004


Be very wary with bank machines around not-so busy areas at night as these are the most targetted. Those in constant use are less likely to be targetted due to risk of being caught, so if it means crossing the road to use a busier machine then do it.

Also check the machine as the FE said, but also look up under the machine (where the light is) as that is where camera's are placed - especially in screw holes.

ALWAYS cup your hands around you when you are typing in your number. Alot of effort i know but it is worth it.

  Forum Editor 00:59 07 Dec 2004

post statements saying that your local garage passed on your credit card details to thugs. Unless you can prove that to be correct you have published a libel about the company you named, and we would be jointly liable with you if there was a subsequent court action. We're not going to take that risk, and I'll delete such posts without warning.

Do NOT make allegations about individuals, groups of individuals, or companies unless you have concrete evidence to back up what you say.

  Poloman69™ 12:33 07 Dec 2004

Apologies FE - it was in the police report, but i will use my discretion in the future and keep my words liberal instead of literal.

My apologies

  Spanglish 12:49 07 Dec 2004

The group that 'skim' the card have 3 basic ways of doing it.1- They put a bit of video tape ( lebanese loop ) into the card slot which allows the card to go in but not 'read' by the machine , it then jams, you stare at the machine when a 'helpful person' ( usually a Pretty female ) states that happened to them and if you put your pin number in again it will work.Ha! They now have your card ( they pull the tape out ) and the 'hepful person' has got you pin !
2. Shoulder Surfing , this is where they peek at you putting in your pin then distract you as your card comes out and steal the card.
3. They now have gone techie where they use a Mini cam transmitter above the console which sends the image to a receiver and they have your Card Number and PIN.
Thomo1... if your friend reports it to the bank they will contact the police, we then check for CCTV , if a decent picture is obtained that is then circulated to other Police and Banks ( fraud Deps ) and IT DOES WORK , one got arrested in Portsmouth in pssesion of someone else's card , his picture was sent 'on the rounds' recognised by an investgator in a Bank, as having starred in a few 'Surfings' in North London , he got 5 YEARS!! first offence and to be deported on release.

  Thomo1 13:35 07 Dec 2004

spanglish - he has been into the bank who have told him they cannot do anyhting without a crime incident number.

He went to our local Police station where he was told he would need to speak to North London police as this is where the cash withdrawels took place.

North London police then told him to come back to our police station and file the complaint there, and they will have to fax the info down to London.

Evesham say they wont and he has to file the complaint with the N.London incident team.

Now he is stuck in the middle as nobody is willing to help!!

The cash was withdrew in 3 separate transactions from 2 different ATM machines on the same day so hopefully when somebody pulls their finger out to help him, they can check the local CCTV's etc, and maybe he can get somewhere.

Luckily he only lost £140GBP but thats not the issue.

  Spanglish 14:04 07 Dec 2004

Thomo1 , get him to report it via the internet ( but make sure he has the date and PRECISE times / place that his card was used when he reports it. ( Metropolitan Police Web site has the link ). They will then send a Crime Ref number through the Net. As to the amount Theft is Theft!

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