Chip and Pin

  Southernboy 10:42 27 Jan 2005

is not infallible! Regrading the recent correspondence, I have experienced problems.

When I got my new C&P card, I duly changed the Pin to something I could remember more easily. It worked fine for about three weeks and then I started to get "incorrect PIN" displayed. This totally locked me out of any ATM.

Contacting my bank, they sent me a "new pin" which turned out to be the original pin that came with the card. Apparently, and of its own volition, the card had reverted to the original pin! The bank cannot explain how this happened, but told me that C&P technology was "very new" and had "teething problems".

Likewise, I am fed up with shop assistants and check-out staff watching me while I enter my pin and I have to risk offence by asking them to look away while I do it.

  €dstowe 13:29 27 Jan 2005

C&P technolgy is not "very new". It has been used in Europe since the early 1990's. There is no reason for teething problems, the UK banks should have had everything sorted out before launching on such a massive scale.

I may appear extra bitter about this - that's because my new UK C&P card worked once with the PIN number I was given and then it failed. I didn't alter the number. A replacement card wouldn't work at all. It is quite humiliating to be in Tesco trying to pay for a trolley full of shopping and being considered almost as a criminal because some piece of unreliable technology is demonstrating its unreliability.

  anchor 13:32 27 Jan 2005

First of all, Chip & Pin is not new technology. I first came across it in France in 1993, where it was well established. All outlets were using it all over the country.

It has proved so successful in France in combating fraud that, about a year or so ago, the French police disbanded their central card anti-fraud unit.

Do as I do, screen the number pad with your other hand.

  Stuartli 13:53 27 Jan 2005

The Americans were also using the system when I visited Florida twice during 1992.

Bit embarrassing when my own Visa credit card pin number wasn't recognised during our first visit to a supermarket at the time...:-)

  JAKK 14:02 27 Jan 2005

On this subject, does anyone know if there is any kind of "cut-off" date where the old method of a signature will be obsolete.

Reason I ask, is because I keep hearing that signatures will be "a thing of the past" around Feb 2005, and that if you don't know your pin you can't buy goods.

I have 3 cards with the same bank, one is c&p the other 2 are not, both have an expiry date of Dec 2005. I contacted my bank and they say there is no such cut-of date, and that although retailers CAN refuse you to sign, they would loose out due to loss of business.

Anyone know of any such date?

  €dstowe 14:08 27 Jan 2005

I was told in my local Boots store just before Christmas that all card transactions after Jan 2nd this year would be C&P. This is not true as, on a recent visit, their equipment had failed and everyone was required to sign a chitty.

  Stuartli 14:10 27 Jan 2005

I got my chip and pin Halifax debit card (now Visa rather than Switch) the other day.

Although the old one still had some time to go, the latest has a start month/year of 12/04 and expires on 01/09 - a jump from three to five years.

  JAKK 14:15 27 Jan 2005

Well, I guess it must be upto the individual retailer to choose when the "cut-off" is. I think I may just pop into Boots tommorrow and pay using one of my non C&P cards. This should then prove whether Boots (or any other retailer who have a cut-off date) have a backup system or not. Let you know how I get on tommorrow.

  anchor 16:46 27 Jan 2005

As I was told, the cut off date refers to liability.

If a retailer had not installed "C&P" by Jan 2nd, when a fraudulent transaction is made, the loss is down to them.

If however "C&P" is used, and a fraudulent transaction is made, the the card issuer will cover the loss.

It seems to me that many, if not most, outlets have yet to make the change.

  pj123 17:25 27 Jan 2005

I just got my new C&P card but I still have to sign it on the back??? If my card is "lost" or "stolen" it can be used in any shop without C&P facilities. I thought C&P was no signatures just a pin number?

My bank also tells me that I don't have to use the pin number if I don't want to (or I have forgotten it) I can still sign for purchases.

So, where is the advantage?

  Stuartli 17:31 27 Jan 2005

As the card issuers didn't get their act together properly to get the new cards out to all customers in time for the planned switchover, there will be occasions when cardholders still have to sign as usual.

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