Why Vista...

  Flying Teddy 11:28 31 Jan 2007

...at all?

Now let me see. Windows Vista, unable to determine the correct version for me due to insufficient information, told to have what M$ tell me what they think I want, loss of personal control over my own PC (allegedly - read the Vista fine print). Cost £Lots.

Linux, OpenOffice.org office suite, Firefox Browser, Thunderbird email (all e.g.). Total cost - urm - NOTHING!

Rearrange the following words: Foot has own shot M$ itself.

This is a no-brainer; Bye bye M$

The UK Government has allegedly warned UK schools to ignore Vista. If true, I wonder why? No actually I don't.

see click here

The open source lobby is growing however. Many a Government department and corporation worldwide has decided that moving to OpenOffice.org is cheaper than upgrading to Vista, and that includes training costs. See click here

Of course there will always be a population of Microsoftophites who will immediately buy anything that M$ issue no matter how unsuitable, overpriced, overfacilitied and overcontrolling it is. It is because of those that allow themselves to be swayed by the hype instead of doing realistic research that M$ will dominate the market. Who do you think will benefit from this situation?

  recap 11:40 31 Jan 2007

I read an article recently that said, with volume licensing, that it will require validating every six weeks or so. If this is the case, I would presume it can be automated via the server, or it will create real problems for system admins.

  Fateful Shadow 12:32 31 Jan 2007

"...loss of personal control over my own PC (allegedly - read the Vista fine print)..."

Could you elaborate on this? I've heard some people talk about this but I'm not totally sure what the 'loss of control' encompasses.

Just wanting to get a rounded-view before I make a decision on buying is all =]

  Flying Teddy 14:46 31 Jan 2007

This is a link previously posted, possibly in this forum somewhere, to an article in the Toronto Star by Michael Geist who is a researcher in the Faculty of Law at Ottowa University.

The article has been discussed widely, yet is less than 2 days old...

Try 'vista fine print' in Google.

click here

  Fateful Shadow 15:04 31 Jan 2007

Taken from the above link:

"Vista's legal fine print includes extensive provisions granting Microsoft the right to regularly check the legitimacy of the software and holds the prospect of deleting certain programs without the user's knowledge."

"Windows Defender will, by default, automatically remove software rated "high" or "severe," even though that may result in other software ceasing to work or mistakenly result in the removal of software that is not unwanted."

"The terms and conditions remove any doubt about who is in control by providing that "this agreement only gives you some rights to use the software. Microsoft reserves all other rights.""

I'm not trying to put people off using Vista. I for one was seriously considering it, but this has been a bit of an eye-opener o.O

  Forum Editor 17:56 31 Jan 2007

the spectre of paranoia rides over the hill.

1. There's nothing wrong with Microsoft checking the legitimacy of its software. It will cause you no harm, do nothing harmful to your computer, and in short will have no effect on your life at all.

2. Vista isn't going to remove any software from your computer unless you say so.

3. When you buy software - any software - you are buying a license to use it, you aren't buying the code and all rights in it. The owner of the software may reserve whatever rights he/she/they wish, and it's up to you to decide whether you buy the product. If you don't like the license terms then don't use the software. There's nothing sinister or underhanded about this - the EULA is online for all to see before they buy.

  josie mayhem 18:54 31 Jan 2007

For people who compendant with how there computer workd, firewalls internet saftey then Vista's defaults settings can seem like it taking control.

But most of these default are just that, if you know you can change them to suit yourself and take control of the system.

But if you are not compendant in this area and firewalls, tinkering with the setting ect, Vista will set this all up for you so that you neither crash your system, get infected, have your securoty breached ect.

So what the problem...

  Flying Teddy 19:01 31 Jan 2007

I wholeheartedly agree that M$ have every right to protect their IP. But I have every right to protect my PC (yes that's MY PC) from software that does things that I am not overtly told about, and I don't include being buried in the depths of the EULA as overt communications. We have to rely on investigations by third parties to reveal all aspects of the EULA, and more importantly, their ramifications. There seems to be some disagreement about what vista will or will not remove; is there a definitive statement about this somewhere?

It is not reasonable for M$ to put vast quantities of, for the large part, quite difficult to understand information in endless tracts of EULAs and then act all innocent when people are surprised when whatever it is alleged will happen, happens.

To ask a simple question then: Why are so many people so upset about what vista will or will not do?

1) it has not been made sufficiently clear what vista will or will not do and in what circumstances, or
2) there is sufficient popular unrest about M$'s failure to live up to expectations as to cause all this debate.

Either way, it's M$'s failure to be transparent in their marketing - not all prospective customers are technically literate. There is a test of being 'reasonable'. M$ have always given (sorry, sold) us what they think we should want, and vista appears to be even more so.

That reason and that reason alone is enough for me to not go anywhere near vista. I also agree that I have every right to buy or not to buy any product. As I have already said, there are now many perfectly acceptable free alternatives to every aspect of vista that I wish to use, and I shall/already do use them.

Call me paranoid if you like (it's not the worst I've been called!!), but to my mind it is those who unthinkingly, sheepishly and slavishly follow the M$ route who are paranoid. Would you buy a used car from M$? "Oh no Sir, you're not allowed to get new tyres put on it unless you tell us which tyres you're going to use, and where you're getting them from, and pay us a fee and get our permission. You're surprised, Sir? Surely not. It's all there in para 327 (c) (5) (xi) of the sales agreement.. There - on the back of page 27. Oh, and I wouldn't play any CDs, not if you want the SatNav to work..."

For alternatives to vista, click here


  Kate B 19:31 31 Jan 2007

I think if you start dismissing people who are happy with Microsoft's operating system as "unthinking" "sheepish" and "slavish", you're not going to win many people here over to your way of thinking.

There's a clear need for EULAs to be much more transparent, but people with inquiring minds will read around the subject and make their own minds up without browbeating from people like you. I also dislike the use of M$ for Microsoft: nail your colours to the mast by all means but you come across as arrogant and I-know-more-than-you-do.

There's a lot of excellent work done by the open source movement and a lot of great software. I think it can exist alongside the Microsoft and Apple OSs and for millions of people - including the knowledgeable as well as those who just want a PC to work - Microsoft's software is more than good enough.

  anskyber 19:33 31 Jan 2007

KateB thanks for saving my typing finger, I completely agree with you.

  Flying Teddy 22:19 31 Jan 2007

I think perhaps you may have misunderstood what I said. If someone has taken a dispassionate and balanced view about what they want out of an operating system and then, taking all things into account, and having inspected all the options, decide that vista is the one for them, then I would be the first to applaud the decision.

If however, they are buying vista purely because it's M$, and believe it to be good for the sole reason that it's M$, without inspecting the options (which I believe a lot of people do), then I would be the first to challenge the decision.

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