Tories target long-term jobless...

  Quickbeam 08:02 08 Jan 2008

click here Haven't we heard all this before from various other wannabe governments...?

I have no doubt something needs to be done. I see first hand everyday people with the attitude that benefits are theirs by right, and this is no doubt one of the attractions to the immigrants that see us as a soft touch for an easy life.

So has the time come to be ruthless with the 'no intention of working again' unemployed?

  tillybaby23 08:17 08 Jan 2008

Like yourself Quickbeam I also see first hand these people who laugh if the word 'job' is mentioned, "What sucker would get out of bed for less than £10 p.h." is what I hear on a regular basis, this makes my blood boil as I am one of these suckers, I think the first people who should be made to work are the single males who have nothing better to do than cause havoc, once that has been sorted out then maybe the government could look at adequate childcare for the single mothers so that maybe they too could take up work although I do feel that is a more difficult task because of school holidays and sickness, what I do know though is that something has got to be done because there are many families that live near me who bring their children up to leave school and immediately claim benefit.

  DANZIG 09:57 08 Jan 2008

Yes,it also drives me absolutely nuts when I hear of people who choose going on benefits as a life style choice and career move.

In my line of business I get to see them every day, and, although they are my customers, I just want to scream "GET A JOB". Several of them are on some form of incapacity benefit when there is plainly nothing at all wrong with them and they can afford to come into where I work and spend LOTS of money. I can't afford to do that and I work 50+ hours a week.

The whole system defintely needs shaking up, with people being forced into work or have their benefits reduced or even cut.

I've been on the dole myself (for a fortnight) when I first moved up North (1994) but if I can find employment with little qualifications and (at that point) zero experience then why can't anyone else??

  Picklefactory 10:12 08 Jan 2008

I'm waiting with baited breath for the 1st over the top do-gooder to appear, telling us that we shouldn't be victimising these poor unfortunates. Whilst our culture quite rightly depends on the right of do-gooders to be able to speak up for genuine causes, we seem to have taken it to such an extreme level, in so many areas, that nobody seems to be responsible for anything negative in their own lives any more. Indeed, can anyone now be held accountable for their wrong-doing, lack of any sort of respectable work ethic (Or respect in general, come to that), or, heaven forbid, an actual need to find work, to provide themselves, and their families, with an income over and above minimal basic needs. We have become the softest touch in the world for wasters and frauds, which only goes to overshadow the genuine cases of those minority (In my opinion) of people who want to work, and who's pride is dented that they cannot achieve it.

  birdface 11:12 08 Jan 2008

Unfortunately some folk are better off not working than working.Money wise.they do not have to pay for transport to work or for lunch for working clothes.Pay no rent or rates.Free prescriptions and glasses and dental treatment family allowance.And probably get as much unemployment benefit as they would if working.Now what do they do.Go to work and loose money or stay unemployed.Its not their fault the government makes it so easy for them to choose not to work.Now I know that there are lots of people that do go out to work and may be worse off for doing that.But unfortunately it is up to the individual.Most governments have tried to stop it but I think that they are fighting a loosing battle.Now you have to ask yourself, What would you do if your circumstances were the same.

  newman35 11:17 08 Jan 2008

At the risk of Picklefactory getting upset with me, I would opine that the problem is OK when you see it in black and white - but that's not life, I'm afraid.

If one could imagine putting all the unemployed/disabled in a line and then being able to draw a line and say "OK, you are shirkers, you are genuine" then all would be fine, but it cannot happen. There will always be 'degrees' of 'shirking' and it's finding legislation to overcome this that's the problem.

For example, a young man/woman with kidney failure who needs two or three hospital sessions of dialysis a week, may well be capable of doing some work inbetween - but what firm would take on a new worker needing that much time off (in addition to normal clinic appointments every few months)? So how does he/she get classified?

Like the NHS, politicians will promise lots (eg GB in his New Year spin message) of what they think we want to hear, and it's always in black and white!!.

  GANDALF <|:-)> 11:19 08 Jan 2008

'the government could look at adequate childcare for the single mothers'..perhaps they might have tried to consider the implications, responsibilities, restrictions and costs of bringing up children before getting knocked up. I have not bought a Ferrari as I am unable to afford the running costs and I do not expect the taxpayer to help me neither.


  Picklefactory 11:21 08 Jan 2008

Hear, hear!
My point exactly, it has been made so easy in this country for people to have an easier option than going to work. I would never advocate an extreme reversal back to days where people were struggling to survive without employment, but surely there should be less incentive to stay out of work than in. I feel there are fewer and fewer of us topping up the benefit coffers for more and more to be leeching it out, more fool us, I suppose. Somewhere it must end, as there must come a time where there will be more going out than coming in, like the pension situation.
Re: the original point...... I doubt the Tories will be any firmer on the issue than any previous Gov't, although, if there were any truth in it, it would seriously tempt me to vote for them on that issue alone.

  newman35 11:34 08 Jan 2008

Realistically, living on unemployment benefit (even with the 'extras') cannot be said to give a life of luxury, as implied by some.
The real source of annoyance for me are the fraudsters, who collect benefits and then set off for work each day. Until we have a system for eliminating this, many DO have NO incentive to work and pay taxes.

  Picklefactory 11:42 08 Jan 2008

You have said nothing to incur my wrath :-), all plain common sense and I have little arguement against any of your points, but I think that efforts should be made to make the system much less grey and as close to black and white as possible. I admit to having no experience in the logistics of our system, as I have been fortunate enough (Depending on your point of view) to have never been out of work in my life, but if it was much less grey, and the rules were significantly tightened, might it not be much harder for the wasters to slip through. I understand there would be an obvious knock on effect to genuine cases, like the example you cited, but again I would hope that those genuine cases would not be anywhere near as common as is that of frauds just making paper statements and not having to back anything up to justify their claims. The genuine cases that would fall foul of tighter rules should be able to prove their cases, although, as with all things like this, there would always casualties. I know that might sound callous, but the question probably boils down to 'What is the cost of not risking any genuine cases being overlooked?', at present the cost is that vast numbers of frauds are sliding through.
Tough choice.

  Picklefactory 11:46 08 Jan 2008

'What is the cost of not risking any genuine cases being overlooked?'
intended to say
'What is the acceptable cost of not overlooking genuine cases?'

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