The Stern report - Truth or Fantasy?

  DieSse 10:35 05 Nov 2006

click here;jsessionid=JEEWB222CRCVFQFIQMFSFFOAVCBQ0IV0?xml=/news/2006/11/05/nosplit/nwarm05.xml

  DieSse 10:39 05 Nov 2006

Oh dear - the click here converter strikes again ;-))

Try click here

  Forum Editor 17:28 05 Nov 2006

is that we're even able to discuss such a thing like this. Years ago few of us would have heard of a report like this, other than the titbits we were tossed by TV and radio news, and by the newspapers. Now we can read it for ourselves, at the click of a mouse, just days after its publication - for what good it does us.

Subjects like global climate change/warming and the causes and remedies are so complex, and so convoluted in their ramifications that the average person doesn't have a hope of making judgments about the facts as presented. We know that big things are afoot, and we hear the soundbites about carbon footprints etc., but in the end our minds tend to shut down - there's just too much to take in.

Truth or fantasy? None of us is qualified to judge, unless we're climate scientists with a doctorate in economics on the side.

One thing's for sure, which is that this roblem is big, and it isn't going to go away unless we all do something, and do it quick. We can argue about the finer points until the methane-producing cows come home, but that's not a solution. What's obviously needed is action - action on a concerted front and on a grand scale.

  lisa02 18:22 05 Nov 2006

Swings and Roundabouts.

It's all part of the cycle, I think anyway, I think we just speeded it up a tad.

Who cares! the Americans don't.

  DieSse 21:00 05 Nov 2006

*One thing's for sure, which is that this roblem is big, and it isn't going to go away unless we all do something, and do it quick.*

Er - that's not quite the conclusion that the report on the link I gave says.

In fact it says that the science being used by the doom-mongers is bad science. You don't have to be a climate scientist to understand the graphs - problem is - which is the right graph?

  Monument 17:00 06 Nov 2006

One point to be made is whether we can actually "do something" to reverse or slow the changes.

One side of the argument says that this has nothing or little to do with mankind and everything to do with another natural change in our climate.

For every argument put forward by one side there is a counter argument from the other.

If we as a race are responsible then the suggestion that increased taxation in the UK is a way of combating climate change is simply laughable.

It is the developing nations such as India and China, together with the current great polluters, USA and Russia, who need to implement serious changes if there is going to be even the slightest overall change.

  anskyber 17:56 06 Nov 2006

We, the UK, are responsible for about 2% of the total increase in carbon emissions. We could play our part but it does have a little bit of a feel of the thing you should never do into the wind.

I have no doubt, setting aside the cyclical nature of the worlds climate, we are helping to bring about changes which have all the makings of disaster. None of us can really know how much is "natural" and how much is man made. The report tries to separate out the man made effects but I suspect it is not so simple as it appears.

King Canute would be proud of us, facing the prospect of London disappearing under water and millions displaced and homeless our current response of adding a few pence to the cost of unleaded petrol looks a tad unimaginative.

Of course there is enormous speculation about the future but it does seem unhelpful to just sit and watch the tide rising. If we act alone as a country it reminds me a little of local Councils in the past who declared their area a nuclear free zone....right, go drop the bomb in the next County please. Unilateral action also has the danger of reducing our economic strength when compared with others.

For me its everyone in the boat together and I suspect that the green taxes will simply be a way of raising revenue to pay to the developing counties so they can grow economically in a more sustainable way. It will cost the developed world dearly if we are to succeed in having a world wide solution. The USA will come on board eventually, there are plenty of politicians over there flexing their green muscles.

Perhaps the biggest thing we can do is use the inventiveness of the UK and fund it accordingly to come up with technological solutions which are low in carbon emissions, we are good at that sort of thing.

  DieSse 18:16 06 Nov 2006

*but it does seem unhelpful to just sit and watch the tide rising.*

Is the tide actually rising though? - there's precious little actual evidence that it is - and the forecasts that it might seem to be based on lies and distortions (according to Christopher Moncktons article).

  octal 18:30 06 Nov 2006

It's a good way of extorting more taxes out of us using the fear factor. It used to be the cold war, now that's gone they've got to find something else to build up the coffers.

  anskyber 20:24 06 Nov 2006

Yes it is, Newlyn near where I come from is the national tide measuring location, its rising.

  Jak_1 21:06 06 Nov 2006

I was listening to an 'expert' on radio 5 live the other day discussing the report. He said :

Britain is doing it's part already and are well on target set by the Kioto agreement. Also he went on to say that some very distorted facts are being bandied about by certain (he failed to say nutters!) activists who would have people believe that low lying British coastal areas will be under water by the turn of the century or before and that the sea will rise by 20'. He went on to state that it is not 20' but 20", a big difference and would not cause the land lose stated by the doom mongers.

There is no getting away from climatic change but unless the USA and the developing world change their views, unlikely to happen, then all our efforts here will prove fruitless.

Natural disasters such as volcanic action cause much of the problemas does deforestation of the worlds rainforests. Though cows do not significantly alter things! One good thing though is that the ozone layer is repairing itself, changes in the use and disposal of cfc gases has helped but I believe that would have happened anyway.

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