Stephen Lawrence Conviction

  morddwyd 21:22 04 Jan 2012
Locked

I am not wanting to comment on the case itself, nor would the FE allow it I think, but purely on the conviction, I'm just opining that any decent lawyer should be able to get this overturned on appeal.

It cannot be safe, given the quality and provenance of the DNA evidence.

  bob. 22:08 04 Jan 2012

What a load of rubbish. They where a bunch of xenophobic thugs.

Let’s hope they are a few brothers inside that may show them the errors of their ways.

  Marko797 22:20 04 Jan 2012

It cannot be safe, given the quality and provenance of the DNA evidence.

I think I might agree with this; 'involvement' in the murder, based on what's been reported, apparently, yes: actually committing - erm, well not sure about that.

Outside of that, a PC conviction to my mind; police trying to save face - back tracking re; previous investigations and wanting to put things right -and to show/assure the non-white public that there's no racism within.

Plus, it's led to the introduction of a revision to English law in the shape of the opening up the Double Jeopardy, which provides some kind of 'licence'. Probably not the intended outcome, but there you go.

Would this have been pursued as strongly if the victim had been white? Hmmm, not so sure. Smacks of trying to improve police relations with the wider black community to me, especially when balanced with the recent London (then national) riots in connection with a further black death.

I'll go along with many internet posts and state that I'm quite sick & tired of hearing about the case to be perfectly honest.

  Joseph Kerr 23:13 04 Jan 2012

Fourm member is right, and the conviction is as safe as houses.

Maybe have a quick read up on the DNA evidence and what it actually means. Looking into the law of joint enterprise would help too.

For goodness' sake, one of them even said he wasn't the key instigator in his mitigation hearing, or at least his lawyer did.

Here's hoping this has weakened the dam protecting the other perpetrators.

And their mothers should be tried for perjury. Indeed, this should have nbeen part of the bigots trial too, to add a few years to their sentences, if possible.

  Forum Editor 23:24 04 Jan 2012

Marko797

"I'm quite sick & tired of hearing about the case to be perfectly honest."

But you're quite happy to make a fairly lengthy post about it. Your rather silly comment inferring that the case was pursued 'strongly' because the victim was black demonstrates your lack of understanding of the central issue. Read fourm member's last post if you want enlightenment.

  Forum Editor 23:35 04 Jan 2012

"I'm just opining that any decent lawyer should be able to get this overturned on appeal."

I assume you're joking?

For a start an appeal is very unlikely. Contrary to what you seem to believe, the quality of the forensic evidence must have been very high for the Court of Appeal to have given approval for the retrial of Dobson.

There might possibly be grounds to appeal the verdict on the grounds of adverse publicity, but it's very doubtful. Frankly I hope these two serve every day of the sentences they received - we don't need people like that on our streets for a minute longer than necessary.

  morddwyd 05:35 05 Jan 2012

FE

Of course, you're right.

I had quite forgotten that this has already been through the Appeal Court following the double jeopardy changes, and the new evidence already legally considered to some degree.

I withdraw my original comment.

  brindly 19:52 05 Jan 2012

Well done morddwyd, you have just been bullied in to changing your opinion. I can only go by what has been reported in various media and i have to say what happened to "reasonable doubt" I have always believed it is better that guilty men go free so that no innocent man goes to prison. This case has the same feel as the Irish referendum, keep trying until you get the verdict you want. With all the publicity over the years about the case and the allegeded people involved how was it going to be possible to get an unbiased jury. Ask yourselves how many other inoccent people have been murdered since this poor young man have been investigated so often and so vigoriously but forgotten. Contrary to other opinion I think there is every chance they will appeal, i can remember several cases over the years where it was thought a safe verdict had been brought in only for it to be overturned on appeal because of sloppy police or forensics, alledged IRA bomings for two.

  bremner 20:34 05 Jan 2012

In this case two very guilty men have had 18 years of freedom before they have been correctly convicted.

I just hope evidence can be found that will convict the other 3.

The contamination of the forensics claims were fully aired and the jury thankfully saw them for the smoke and mirrors they were. A mother who for the first time in 18 years suddenly states her son was at home thereby giving him an alibi - again seen by the jury for what it really was - a pack of lies.

As for an appeal - on what grounds? "The nasty jury got it wrong" don't wash!

  Wuggy 21:45 05 Jan 2012

There is little doubt that the 2 men convicted and sentenced were involved in the death of Stephen Lawrence and deserved considerably more jail time than they received. I was a police officer for over 30 years, a detective for 25 of those years and there are certain aspects of this case which cause me some concern. Knowing as I do the cavalier fashion in which many police officers handle forensic evidence and that the productions (physical evidence) involved had been examined several times and kept in what have to be considered less than optimum conditions gives rise to serious doubt that there was not some kind of cross contamination. I have seen this happen where the productions were handled considerably less frequently and where the storage arrangements were a damn sight more secure. Secondly I am surprised that the prosecution was allowed to lead the evidence relating to the surveillance videos where the accused were ranting and raving and making racist remarks. None of this evidence was directly related to Stephen Lawrence or his murder yet there seems to be little doubt that this evidence played a huge part in swaying the jury towards a guilty verdict and may well have caused them to place less stress on evidence which might have caused some doubt to be placed in their minds. For these 2 reasons alone I suspect that an appeal against conviction may well be made and would suggest might easily result in the conviction being overturned. Unfortunately when you pile on evidence like that you may well convince a jury but leave the conviction wide open to appeal. Always remember that a team of lawyers will be going over the transcripts of the trial looking for any point whatsoever on which to appeal. They may just be lucky this time which will be a very distasteful result but may well go to show that the law continues to be an ass.

  Joseph Kerr 22:35 05 Jan 2012

The blood stain is definitely not down to cross contamination; much has been made of this.

To recap, you have proof of their racist views, proof they had access to many knives, and proof they were present when the murder took place.

This thread is now locked and can not be replied to.

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