Should Ian Tomlinson's assailant

  cream. 22:53 08 Apr 2009

be charged with manslaughter or GBH.

click here

  lotvic 23:01 08 Apr 2009

We shall have to wait and see - once all the evidence has been gathered and all the facts are known.

  dan11 23:54 08 Apr 2009

No doubt all the critical cctv camera's in the region will have faults.

  laurie53 07:33 09 Apr 2009

The top lawyers the Met will brief will call expert evidence to prove that the heart attack had nothing to do with being violently assaulted while going about his lawful occasions, and he would have died anyway.

He will probably get off with no more than assault, if that.

If the act had been committed by an educationally challenged black teenager every outraged conservative in the country would be screaming for him to be strung up.

  dagbladet 08:03 09 Apr 2009

...whereas on here it's every outraged Huffington-Puffington who's screaming for him to be strung up.

  newman35 08:09 09 Apr 2009

Exactly, nothing like calling the decision before it's been made, or even investigated.
Perhaps we should rename the Forum - what about PC Cynics?

  interzone55 08:15 09 Apr 2009

You're quite correct. I think I've mentioned something similar in a past thread.

I think we need to look at why some many people in this country are so very cynical about our police & elected leaders.

Could it be because so many of the aforementioned make themselves easy targets?

At least the news yesterday showed that at least one police officer will be regretting his actions
click here

  newman35 09:24 09 Apr 2009

Well said, I often wonder how I might react if I had to do the job those policemen do at 'demonstrations' (yes, I know Mr Tomlinson wasn't part of it). They can be 'wound up' by all kinds of abuse, verbal or otherwise and are expected to have the patience of saints. They are human, just like the rest of us.
Errors will occur, and I'm glad the officer has stepped forward, and do hope, also, that he will get a fair hearing and not the 'lynch-mob' treatment.

  ened 11:02 09 Apr 2009

"They are human, just like the rest of us."

They are also meant to be highly trained and part of that training is in restraint in pressure situations.

From what I could see of this incident the copper was simply being a bully.

I had friend who was in charge of the security at USAF Upper Heyford which had continual protests outside the perimeter. The protestors were continually scaling the fences and taunting the (heavily armed) service personnel. One day one of the American guards hauled a protester off the inside of the fence and stuck the muzzle of his weapon in his face whilst asking him if he wanted to repeat what he had just shouted. There was no harm done but all the same he was disciplined and sent home in disgrace.

From what I could see Ian Tomlinson was not putting any pressure at all on that bully other than being an innocent bystander.

  newman35 11:59 09 Apr 2009

"From what I could see Ian Tomlinson was not putting any pressure at all on that bully other than being an innocent bystander."

Let's wait for the investigation, though. Things can often be very different to what is seen, and I prefer to wait until someone has collected all the facts before pronouncing.

The OP asked whether he should be charged with manslaughter or GBH, you seem to be saying he was just a bully (which may or may not be true) who pushed him over (looks like it), but did that actually kill him? That's the question that needs expert advice to answer.
I suggest we wait for the answer.

ps How does an American shoving the barrel of a gun in someone's face (after being verbally taunted) relate to this case??
Or are you suggesting Mr Tomlinson maybe said something to that officer, which provoked a 'similar' reaction?

  ened 12:29 09 Apr 2009

No I was just addressing your point about how you would behave under that sort of pressure. I was using the example of the American to show the behaviour expected of them is at a very high level of restraint.

Seeing that tape brought back bad memories to when I was beaten up by a police man when I was a teenager. I am old enough now to realise there are bad apples and you didn't ought to tar everybody with the same brush. But that incident tainted my attitude to the police for over twenty years. When I see something like that it makes me question whether anything has really changed.

There had better not be a cover up.

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