NHS money

  DrScott 19:56 06 Mar 2007

Want to know where a lot of NHS money has been spent?

click here

In addition to a failing computer project, the goverment also decided to completely change the process of training which has completely demoralised every training doctor in the UK.

It's not just the nurses who are grumpy.

  Forum Editor 20:16 06 Mar 2007

that allows this state of affairs to be reached. A telling statement, if ever there was one is this:

"It(The BMA) also claimed that non-medically qualified staff were involved in the recruitment process, while consultants had insufficient time to shortlist applicants fairly."

How on earth a non-medically trained person could possibly be expected to make objective judgments about a doctor's suitability for specialist training is quite beyond me, and I despair for a Health ministry that can't seem to understand what's staring it in the face - unless we have highly-motivated, well-trained specialist doctors, and lots of them we might as well give up any hope of coping with the many problems facing a country which has a rapidly ageing population.

  DrScott 20:58 06 Mar 2007

but true that many of the application forms were marked by human resources staff using a crib sheet to decide whether the answers were acceptable.

There are no job applications or interviews like these in any other sector of the job market. The 'specialists' of the future will be deskilled and poorly trained, and whilst the workforce will undoubtedly be cheaper and easier to boss around, it will merely be made up of technicians, not professionals.

The problem is that the government sees doctors as being too independent and too expensive, and that the job of treating people is actually simple and just needs people with specific limited skills. That Tony Blair might still think this after his cardiac problems is beyond belief....

  €dstowe 21:08 06 Mar 2007

I left medicine only a few years after qualifying. I could see what was coming with the health service being totally controlled by bean counters and the computer equivalent of pen pushers with zero consideration being given to the people that really matter - the patients and staff who were then (and more so now) considered to be an inconvenience.

My brother stuck it for longer - long enough to become a senior consultant in a major teaching hospital but even he's left it now and set up in private practice.

Before anyone makes a comment that I have wasted money and resources in not pursuing my original profession, how many graduates do? To that I might add that the taxes I now pay, personal and business, far outweigh anything I cost in medical training - of which an appreciable proportion was paid by my parents anyway.

Aneurin Bevan must be turning in his grave seeing his vision of the National Health Service change into what it is now.

  STREETWORK 21:43 06 Mar 2007

Government should say, "hey nursey types and doctorist design some training you actually need and we will deal with the politics, and by the way here is a load of accountable dosh to do it with" Why don't they?...

  DrScott 21:44 06 Mar 2007

with this cartoon:

click here

How very true...

  polish 22:18 06 Mar 2007

maybe its time richard branson took over to sort it out?
ps i think doctors and nurses do a great job in difficult circumstances

  TOPCAT® 22:29 06 Mar 2007

"Over 28,000 UK doctors competing for 22,000 posts, says the BMA"

This sad state of affairs will not improve at all when around the country various wards are being closed and doctor and staff numbers are being reduced in some because of their overspend.

Our main hospital has replaced its failing general manager and is currently undergoing a harsh review to try and reduce its £35 million deficit, so I can't see it taking on any more doctors for the foreseeable future. The workload placed on the current medical staff, not improved by a moral at its lowest, is enormous and can possibly give rise to errors through near exhaustion. They deserve all the reward and help they can get, in my estimation.

As Peter has said, there is definitely a rapidly ageing population in this country and, in our case here in Cornwall, we have very many of them. The government fail to heed these areas' problems and the increasing pressure put on the limited resources provided by the state. I'm no financial expert but I believe this has led to the various NHS Trusts borrowing more and thereby getting further into debt. TC.

  Kate B 22:31 06 Mar 2007

Hm, I think there is a place for non-medical staff in the recruitment process. Doctors are doctors, not HR specialists nor managers. It should of course be a collaborative process, but I don't see a problem if a range of expertises are deployed in finding the right person for a job.

  Fred the flour grader 22:52 06 Mar 2007

I don't think anything is properly thought out anymore, most of the big projects in this country go into problems when large amounts of cash are being waved around. Take the Millenium dome, Wembley, the olypics is already a shambles withoout a brick being laid and the new T5 at Heathrow is going to go over time by a considerable amount. I am not a financial or business expert but the health service suffers from "obesity" in the worst form. It is far too fat with managers and support staff and too thin with sharp end people, ie well qualified nurses and doctors.
Speaking from personal experience, HR staff need to be qualified in the field of work they are dealing with, to understand the needs of the company and the workforce. It's no good getting a HR manager from say the motor industry to run a personel dept in a hospital.

  Forum Editor 23:21 06 Mar 2007

The context here is one in which qualified doctors are being selected for specialist training. Surely, HR specialists and managers can't possibly be qualified to make judgments on doctors suitability for such training? These selections should be made by senior consultants. The consultants know it, the BMA knows it, and the doctors who apply for the training positions know it.

What's happening is that government is meddling, and exposing its lack of confidence in the ability of the medical profession to manage these affairs for itself. Health service managers are there to manage the non-medical aspects of the service, and should allow senior medical staff to get on with the process of selecting doctors for further training.

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