gambling

  bumpkin 21:48 18 Apr 2013
Locked

Hi, I would like to know your opinions on gambling as a whole. A lottery ticket, an afternoon in the bookies, a trip to Vegas, online betting sites, anything you wish to post.

  Forum Editor 21:54 23 Apr 2013

carver

"sorry but I have my opinions based on first hand and you have read a book."

Your opinions are fine, as long as you appreciate that they are based on one personal experience, and cannot possibly be taken as evidence of a general trend.

There's not a lot of point in trying to have these discussions (which are about very important issues) if someone can't appreciate the difference between anecdote and fact. Your personal experience of a case of alcoholism is interesting, and has obviously been a powerful one as far as forming your views on the subject go, but please try to grasp the point being made - that your opinion is not based on statistical evidence.

Saying "I'll leave this topic to the experts" isn't much of a way to handle it, but it's your choice. As far as I'm aware there are no experts on gambling or alcoholism in the forum. We're all just expressing opinions, but some are based on research; others are not.

  Forum Editor 21:57 23 Apr 2013

Aitchbee

Well said. Your attitude perfectly illustrates the difference between an enjoyable, controlled interest and an addiction.

  Aitchbee 21:59 23 Apr 2013

Thanks, FE.

  bumpkin 22:21 23 Apr 2013

Aitchbee, Very much the same as me but there have been times when I felt I had put my first foot on the slippery slope. It is part of the excitement and adrenalin rush. I can understand how people can get addicted. There but for fortune go you and I as the song goes.(Streets of London)

I feel like starting another thread on alcoholism but will spare you all that as it seems to have been covered here.

  Aitchbee 22:25 23 Apr 2013

bumpkin - I [now]use my local bookies mainly for a lavatory stop and a place to sit in comfort whilst waiting for my bus!

  bumpkin 22:53 23 Apr 2013

There is hope for you yet then:-)

  carver 14:23 29 Apr 2013

"There's not a lot of point in trying to have these discussions (which are about very important issues) if someone can't appreciate the difference between anecdote and fact. Your personal experience of a case of alcoholism is interesting, and has obviously been a powerful one as far as forming your views on the subject go, "** but please try to grasp the point being made - that your opinion is not based on statistical evidence." **"

F.E When you posted that I got a little bit annoyed but instead of just excepting yours and f.m (expert) point of view I decided to do a little bit of research.

This discussion started out as a topic on gambling and continued until fourm member moved the conversation to another topic regarding alcoholism which he said he had personally been involved in and gave the impression that he had more than a "little" knowledge about the subject therefore alcoholism and gambling as far as he was concerned could be regarded or classed as the same.

You and fourm member have both stated that his argument holds water because of research.

Now this may appear OTT but I contacted both AA and Al-Anon Family Groups UK & Eire and asked a series of questions, both groups were very happy to answer based on their experiences over many years of working with alcoholic dependant people.

First question I asked was if a spouse or partner or family member could be capable of not knowing a family member to have a drink problem, both answered that not only was it unlikely but it nearly impossible for them not to know that another family member had a drinking problem. Also they do not know of *any * research that would give this impression.

They both pointed me to a series of books on the subject about Codependency in Relationships, which deal with this subject.

I'm not going to give links because there is so many but below a small extract from one, you only have to google, codependent and alcohol.

"It's rarely a conscious choice, but in trying to protect themselves, their partner, or their children from embarrassment (or worse), a codependent will deny, cover-up, excuse, even lie about the extent of the problem."

I also asked if gambling and alcoholics could be classed together and both groups did say that they are both classed as an addiction but with a difference, reason being that some one addicted to gambling doesn't generally show any outward dependency towards gambling until he or she runs out of money.

Both stated that alcohol and chemical dependency are classed as the same and tends toward increasing levels of use, a dependent person's behaviour often becomes less predictable and more unreliable.

I then asked a question about "What Is a Functional Alcoholic?"

Both replied with nearly the same answer, that person is some one who can only manage or continue to work when he or she has a drink, take away the drink and they go into withdrawal the same as a drug addict, with the same sort of effect. They can conceal their addiction from co-workers or if they are unable too, make a joke about "they only drink to be sociable" or some thing along those lines.

One other thing both groups did mention is that there is likely to be a high percentage of both physical, mental and sexual abuse in the family group of an alcoholic and *any body who has worked with alcoholics * would know this.

This can be one of the reasons why alcoholic try's to get help because of pressure from family members.

So I wasn't far off in my description of my experience in watching my brother in law and his family and the problems I saw in that family.

But what do I know.

  fourm member 14:52 29 Apr 2013

carver

What I posted (long after the thread had pretty much run its course on gambling) was 'The descriptions of compulsive gamblers given here remind me very much of alcoholics I've worked with.'

A general comment made about no-one in particular. You, however, responded with 'gambling is nothing like alcohol abuse' and sought to justify that unjustifiable statement via your personal experience.

You also decided that when I said 'alcoholics I've worked with' I was setting myself up as an expert on alcoholism. That then gave you the chance to knock me off the perch you created.

And now we have 'So I wasn't far off in my description of my experience in watching my brother in law and his family and the problems I saw in that family.'

Nobody, nobody has suggested that your experience wasn't your experience. What it is not, though, is the universal experience. That's the point you can't seem to grasp.

  carver 15:31 29 Apr 2013

f.m so from your experience, 2 *very * well respected groups who deal with alcoholism have got it wrong.

*I will though say you are wrong *when you say 'Any family member can see that some one has an alcohol problem'. See this book description about high functioning alcoholics.

It's funny that only you could have the experience and knowledge to be able to say they have it wrong.

  fourm member 16:13 29 Apr 2013

carver

Try doing a web search for 'strawman'.

I'm not going to defend arguments I never made in the first place.

This thread is now locked and can not be replied to.

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