Can you see my point!

  sl2 07:14 05 Feb 2008
Locked

I went to a hole in the wall/speedbank a few days ago & although i dont use this bank much (Yorkshire Bank) i knew i had around a tenner in this account as its a old one that i stopped using due to a catalogue of errors by the abnk costing me a good deal of charges that the bank refused to pay but had to in the end as my WTC (Working tax Credits) goes into tis account,anyway i went to the speedbank as i was saying a few days ago knowing that i had around £10 in the account & the machine didnt have the "View Balance" option available so i tried to draw £10 out, yesterday i had a letter from "Yorkshire Bank" telling me i had only £8.80 in my account & making me £1.20 overdrawn which wasnt agreed so they have now charged me £35 for this, My point been surley they shouldnt of let the transaction go ahead & secondly i called the So caled "Call Centre" up & i got the " you was given all the rules & charges when you opened the account" thrown at me, so there NOT budging,this isnt good & i find it cheeky & unfair,Although the banks thrive on things like this been a family man with a VERY limited budget i sence the need to shout my point out.

  Meshuga 08:11 05 Feb 2008

You say that you knew that "you had around £10" in the A/C. Therefore that could mean More or Less than £10. It was up to you to ensure that you had enough funds to cover your withdrawal or risk going overdrawn. It depends entirely on the method the bank uses to monitor accounts as to whether they should not have let the transaction go through or whether their rule book shows that it is the customers responsibility to control their account.

  lisa02 08:40 05 Feb 2008

Ok I am somewhere between sl2's view and Meshuga's.

* If I knew I could possibly trigger a charge by attempting to withdraw more than is in my account then I'd make sure the balance was there.

* If you are not authorised to take more then the Bank should not allow you to. I get £129 into a particualr account once a week...

Can I lift £130 from an ATM? The answer is no because I do not have an overdraft facility. The ATM spits the card out and states "Insufficient Funds".

  Pine Man 08:41 05 Feb 2008

Sorry but I have to agree with the Meshuga and fourm member. The charges are irrelevant in this case (though very high) you effectively took money that didn't belong to you without permission.

  Quickbeam 09:03 05 Feb 2008

The way to manage this account with a small balance is to use online banking. Transfer the funds minus a pound to keep it open, and withdraw it from the other account which I presume has a reasonable floating balance to cover direct debits etc.

I do the same with the Halifax that I fell out with. All I use them for is to pay in large quantities of coins, and then the same day, because it's a cash deposit, I transfer the funds to my town bank that I can't be bothered to trail into town for.

  Rigga 09:03 05 Feb 2008

The problem as I see it is, the banks do give permission, otherwise people wouldn't walk away with the money / have the bill paid.

i.e they imply permission as it's their choice to give you the money / pay the bill or not.

If they didn't want to give you permission, then they could simply not give you the money or not pay the bill.

And in that case, once they have given you permission, i.e. it's their choice to give you their money, then why are they charging £35 for a decision they made?

To put it another way, if someone asked me for £50 and I gave it to them. Then I went to the police and claimed i'd had £50 taken from me. Everyone on here would tell me to stop being stupid, and rightly so.

The banks have the ability to stop you taking money that you do not have, but they don't do this why? is it because they know they can charge £35 if you do this?

R.

  Forum Editor 10:57 05 Feb 2008

1. the bank resolutely refuses to pay out its minimum ATM ammount of £10 because a customer only has £8:20 in the account.

2. the machine pays the money, because otherwise it would be refusing to allow a customer access to cash which is shown as an availale balance.

Either way, the banks are in a no-win situation. If they pay, but charge for an overdrawn account they're wrong, but if they refused, and say, a woman had to walk home late at night along a lonely road because she couldn't get her money the banks would no doubt be pilloried.

Lots of machines now default to transacting for small amounts without checking balances. Travel on the London Underground, and use your credit or debit card to buy a ticket from a machine and your avliable blance will not be checked - you'll get the ticket. It may result in a penalty charge, but that's not your bank's fault, it's yours.

  bstb3 11:15 05 Feb 2008

I agree pretty much with what has been said, it is the responsibility of the account holder not to go overdrawn, BUT surely in this day and age its not impossible for the cashpoint to display a warning that you will go overdrawn if you continue to withdraw £x, and charges may follow?

At least that way you have the chance to make the decision in full knowledge (albeit you could check the balance first, when the option is available).

Common sense would dictate also that if you have a balance less than the minimum withdrawal amount (£10) then withdrawing £10 should not trigger an automatic overdraft charge provided the balance is brought back to even within say 7 days. Surely the banks can afford a interest free loan for <7 days for a few £'s? That way they can still provide access to ones money, even given the limitations of the ATM systems.

  Cymro. 11:57 05 Feb 2008

What has been said above is very hard but probably correct.
I might suggest that you try to appeal to the banks better nature, yes I know banks don`t do better nature, but if they have some sort of appeal system it may be worth a try.

Forum Editor says "the bank is in a no-win situation" well I have never known any bank be in anything other than a win-win situation, they always make sure of that.

  Forum Editor 12:32 05 Feb 2008

Yes, it would be possible to display such a warning, and it's probably a good idea. It's also a good idea to allow a short period of grace before triggering an unauthorised overdraft charge, so that people have an opportunity to retify the balance.

  lofty29 12:41 05 Feb 2008

I agree that sl2 was wrong in withdrawing the money without being sure that he had sufficient funds, however i feeel that this level of penalty charge is totally unfair with respect to the amount involved. which is what a major dispute is ongoing with the banking sector at the moment, and that he will probably not have to pay it anyway if he refers to the bbc website regarding unfair banking charges

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