Black crime or White racialism? - Time to change?

  anskyber 17:07 15 Jun 2007

Multi cultural we may be, and I certainly think we live in a culturally rich country which is exciting and interesting.

But we have enormous issues of apparent unfairness, perhaps from institutional racism. Is this a time to change? Perhaps a move to celebrating the differences but being hard on any indifference to our core values as British people?

We cannot turn the clock back but we seem to need answers to questions like click here

  Cymro. 17:36 15 Jun 2007

This will turn in to a right hornets nest. I can just here them now, the send them back

home brigade. I will come back to this one tomorrow, that is if the forum editor has

not had to delete it before then for gross racist comments.

  rezeeg 17:58 15 Jun 2007

Cymro they are home - most are born and bred in the UK.

  Totally-braindead 19:14 15 Jun 2007

Young black people do commit more of certain types of crimes. This is admitted in the article that you provided the link to anskyber. Therefore it seems that if they do commit more crime its hardly surprising theres more of them in the system is it. Or am I missing the point they are trying to make because it seems to be somewhat confusing to me anyway in what they are saying.

To quote from the article "Committee chairman John Denham said there was no evidence young black people committed more crime than other groups." but then says "But they were more involved in certain types of crime, including robbery, drug and gun offences. They were also more likely to be the victims of violent crime."

So what does that mean exactly? Are they saying that black people are no more or less involved in crime per head of population than white people but have a higher percentage of the above overall sections of crime?

I personally couldn't care less if I was on a DNA database, I could be as I was seriously assaulted some time ago and don't know what evidence was taken. If I am on the database then thats ok with me, if it helps catch the criminals all the better but I do realise that some will classify any info gathered as big brother watching you.

The section "Lack of confidence in the criminal justice system may mean some young black people take the law into their own hands or carry weapons in an attempt to distribute justice and ensure their own personal safety" is to me a bit stupid as they mention young black people, is that not true of many of us? I'm 41 and white not young and black and I certainly don't have much faith in the criminal justice system and would consider taking the law in to my own hands under certain circumstances because I personally believe that too many are treated with kid gloves and get pathetic sentences for serious crimes.
I don't care if you are black, white or green with purple stripes. If you commit a crime you should be punished.
Of course I'm a bit biased after what happened to me. I didn't get justice as far as I'm concerned so I don't have faith in the justice system.

  Guardianangel 19:26 15 Jun 2007

I believe that the reasons stated in the article are probably correct and that because of a lack of correct parenting these young men join groups for a feeling of belonging and worth.

They then get trapped into the dangerous world of drug-dealing and gun-handling.

This is made worse because they perceive that they are being victimised by the police and the figures bear this out. There is institutionalised racism and it hasn't been wiped out yet.

The mentoring approach seems to me to be the best way forward in helping these youngsters to develop a sense of responsibility and of self-worth.

  sunny staines 21:42 15 Jun 2007

stats on crime related to race just cause trouble. the bad guys should be locked up if they black or white the percentage of each colour is irrelevant, and distracts from the original problem of the crime itself.

  WhiteTruckMan 22:38 15 Jun 2007

whenever anyone who says something about an 'ethnic minority' that doesnt cast them in the most positive of terms is automatically branded a racist.

Also, too many people out there with hair triggers, ready to manufacture offence out of the simplest of innocent statements. One can only speculate as to their motives as these people very rarely indeed engage in rational dialog.


  MichelleC 10:59 16 Jun 2007

The reason why black people are (supposedly) involved in more crime than white people is probably to do with a whole variety of factors.

Racism is a whole can of worms in itself. Anyone and everyone can be racist in some form, even without knowing it. Take the time I worked in a multi-racial day centre. My boss was black afro-carribean and we took a while to learn about each other without being patronising and with empathy. We also taught each other a few home truths about our cultures. Me as a trained white middle-class therapist which she was prejudiced against, and her as a feisty no-nonsense benign dictator. But we had the capacity to want to learn about each other and became firm friends. She taught me about language. To always speak the 'language' of the person you're communicating with, and that might not be white-middle-class-speak. It creates a gulf if the person you're talking to hasn't got the same communication skills as you and you're not speaking their 'language'. It's inverted snobbery and the other person picks that up.

Take the IQ test for example. It was designed by white middle class people, so will by its own creation be biased towards that group.

Another factor is the black culture in Africa is much different to the white culture of Europe. If I walk down Migori high street in Kenya I am 'greeted' by people at every step. Africans are extremely gragarious people and much their day is spent catching up with friends. What you hear most is people slapping hands together as they meet someone they haven't seen for a while. The streets are full of people chatting. That's in complete contrast to the UK.

Also Africans are very spiritual. Vertually everyone in Kenya goes to church.

You take a culture out of their natural environment (which is what happened) and without proper support, understanding and provision and you'll get problems. Which is where we are now.

The issue of absent fathers was raised as being a contributory factor as to why black youth are involved in crime. But the same goes for white youth too. It's a sign of the times.

The mentoring idea sounds good and it could be feasible.

  Kate B 11:42 16 Jun 2007

Excellent post, MichelleC. I wish more people made the effort you and your colleague have made to understand each other.

  wee eddie 11:59 16 Jun 2007

When I was on the Stock Exchange there was an outbreak of a crime called "Bond Washing". As a Jobber we were interviewed about the transactions that we handled.

Later Brokers and some of their Clients were interviewed.

Those interviewed were all male Caucasians, mostly middle aged.

Was this "Institutional Racism" and Sexism at work? Yes it was; as the London Stock Exchange was primarily run by Bowler Hatted White Males. There were a few Asiatics and Arabs, and then very very few Negroes.

The Police were working on the Balance of Probabilities that the Crime was being committed by a middle aged white male and they were right.

There is a lunatic sector of our community that says that a balanced selection of all communities must be interviewed, even if the Victim of the Crime says that the Perpetrator appeared to be an Eskimo.

  spuds 14:42 16 Jun 2007

I live in a multi-cultural city.You name it, we have most probably got it in terms of race, religions and believes. I have many friends including mixed marriages from the Asian, Caribbean and White communities.We all enjoy each others company, including a little light relief of black and white humour.

What makes me and my friends very annoyed, if the politically correct 'superior' bodies who try to enforce things and text book learning on people (all communities), yet these so called experts neither live or work within the communities, and in all reality have very little concept of true multi-cultural harmony.

Regarding crime, black or white, then this all comes down to modern culture. Different races have different ways of involvement. Respect of family and friends can have various meanings. Defining 'Respect' can bring a total different way of life and meaning between say an Asian family to that of a West Indian family.The same applies to the 'head of the household' and the children living under the same roof.

Like perhaps what MichelleC may have suggested, you have to be in it to understand it!!.

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