Frame sets on dreamweaver

  jacobjohn7 13:09 17 Jun 2008

Help needed please. I have uploaded onto the heart free service (yes, it does exist) and yes they do not provide any customer service for this service (ie: cos its free) but thats another issue. The files are up, only thing is I have produced a frame set on dreamweaver (side top and main panels all on the page), the index page is the main page... and the others are call frame2 etc, but on uploading the index alone appears (how do I get the other frames involved and showing on the site?) any help appreciated. Many thanks.

  Taran 14:13 17 Jun 2008

Have you a link we can look at ?

I can't help raising an eyebrow at the fact you intend using frames - it's one of the fundamental must-not-do rules of good web design.

Many of the old problems frames faced in terms of browser interpretations have long since disappeared but they still fall short in many areas of accessibility, searchability and accurate display on many handheld devices. There is also an additional requirement for refresh code to be embedded into your main content pages, so that anyone who accidentally bookmarks a content page and not the surrounding frameset will have that page automatically reload with the frameset intact. Not doing this runs the very real risk that someone can visit your site from a bookmark and only see some content, with no navigation panel, header or footer.

My first suggestion would be for you to ditch frames entirely - using includes and/or CSS offers greater flexibility than frames for navigation structures, headers and footers et al.

If you're dead set on frames then a link to your problem page would probably point us in the right direction.

I imagine you haven't targeted the pages properly that make up your page layout. If your main frameset page is index.html, it could contain:

<frameset rows="*" cols="80,*" frameborder="no" border="0" framespacing="0">

<frame src="left_panel.html" name="leftFrame" scrolling="No" noresize="noresize" id="leftFrame" title="leftFrame" />

<frameset rows="80,*" frameborder="no" border="0" framespacing="0">

<frame src="header.html" name="topFrame" scrolling="No" noresize="noresize" id="topFrame" title="topFrame" />

<frame src="main_content_area.html" name="mainFrame" id="mainFrame" title="mainFrame" />




The above was created in Dreamweaver in about 30 seconds, and the only thing I changed was the name of the referenced pages that make up each piece of the whole (left_panel.html, header.html and main_content_area.html respectively).

Managing a frames site can become a real chore over time, so I'd urge you to think very carefully before investing a lot of time and effort into something with so many inherent issues.

  jacobjohn7 17:10 17 Jun 2008

many thanks Taran, i dont doubt any of your knowledge on this, and points taken about frames for future reference, i am merely a graphic designer who uses dreamweaver through the design side of things.. i no absolutely zero about the coding side of things (would love to find out more though if I had the time!) I used one of the pre-set frame templates on dreamweaver on a whim really, just to sample doing something in a different way, but the website is 'complete', just want to see it all on screen at the same time.

Anyway, crux of the matter is I have already set up, designed and populated 5 or so pages.. they have all been uploaded... my problem is that all that is showing is the main frame of the frameset when I go to the site. The left frame, and top frame are missing, which should be the permanent features of the design with the main frame changing on button clicks to different sections. The buttons are down the left hand side frame, if it was there..! What I feel i need to do is nest them or mess about with the parent child settings..... but the real solution from yourself or anyone else would be nice. Many thanks for your time and help.

  jacobjohn7 19:56 17 Jun 2008

re: complete: thats why i used the inverted commas forum member.. thanks for comments however.
I have completed the website (as far as I am concerned, and just want to get it on screen regardless of the generic problems a frame based site can cause), its a personal business project of my own, but do not wish to re-convert it to normal static paged site. The website works fine in the browser. But I think you miss the point of my querie and what I am trying to resolve, I dont particularly want a witch hunt of frame based websites.. I have no preference either way. But in the terms of business I have a site, that I have a querie about.
Should I have named the frameset file... 'index.html'.? And would that solve the problem of not having all the frames on screen? Many thanks.

  jacobjohn7 23:03 17 Jun 2008

OK fair points. This is the first time i tried frames... i dont have a thing for them, its just that I tried em out... I have saved one of the files as index.html.... but it seems to me its the wrong one as the whole frame set isnt visible.. thats my problem. Anyway, to be honest I can design the stuff good, as thats my business, but i must admit i find it difficult and fraught with problems which ever method i use for the website, as i dont have any one long period doing websites... so got 2 steps forward and two back usually...
But, after this problem I now have another, and I am a 10.1 on the fustration scale of 10 at present.... and thinking of torching my PC... as Im trying to connect to hosting company now (which was working fine a couple of hours ago) it now says... " an FTP error occurred - cannot make connection to host" so thats a new one for me.. cant even get anything up now. This stuff drives me crazy.... I might try to convert the site to normal..
PS: the coding that Taran kindly posted means nothing to me at all.. I do not know code.. I am looking at web design purely from a creative perspective and not the technical aspect which is why people like me find the whole process frustrating! But not gonna let it beat me.

  jacobjohn7 09:28 18 Jun 2008

thanks for that , in the mean time I was up converting the index page to a single static one, which I know works and doesnt have any problem issues with doing so.
RE: the frames, I am aware of the items of the recipe, its just the link between the three, if dreamweaver is supposed to do it then something has come un-stuck.. (this could be part of the wider issue of the rollovers suddenly not working - which is the simplest thing of all) but once something starts not working on dreamweaver that is when the designer (rather than coder) comes un-stuck, as we cant delve into the background to see whats what.

RE: the three service, they use that to get punters embroiled with the company, ie: buying domain name and setting up, and once they realise that no one is going to help them, and it isnt up all the time they switch to a paid one.. (i have two other paid packages but with easyspace) but wanted to give the free package a try, so more than likely I will be converting to the cheapest paid for package. Out of interest I find the portal on heart a lot easier to use... and clearer than easyspace for what its worth.

The frame files i have uploaded are: 'frame-2.html' 'frame-3.html' and 'frameset-4.html'
I hope you can see something in that...
One sub question for you: why after creating an html file does dreamweaver display them as 'htm'? Further confusion for someone who tries to do it all by the book (literally).

Thanks for spending time to correct a website thicko... and you were so right about server being down looks that way, as I can connect now!
Cheers John

  Taran 10:05 18 Jun 2008

I'd still suggest that if you are prepared to post a link to the offending site that one of us will be able to put our finger on the problem straight away.

Dreamweaver does NOT do it all for you with frames, or with anything else for that matter.

Dreamweaver is a good program but it doesn't do nearly enough to help people who aren't necessarily up to speed with web concepts - basically, it will happily allow you to charge on ahead using defaults that by definition won't work, and it will cheer you on all the way.


Make a frameset using Dreamweaver.

When prompted to name your file(s) when you save them, by default Dreamweaver will name the parent framset file that controls how everything will load (or not as the case may be) UntitledFrameset-1.html

This will be right after where Dreamweaver asks for you to uniquely name the elements that make up the page (left, main content, header, footer or whatever).

If you go with that default option and upload the pages, unless someone happens to type in then they won't see your pages.

Good stuff...

One of many reasons why I have always argued that Dreamweaver is vastly overrated and why it is NOT the best choice for people learning the ropes. You really need training or a lot of time for self-tuition and general practice otherwise Dreamweaver will bite you big time.

Dreamweaver is and always has been rubbish at what I call 'error trapping'. Basically, it will cheerfully let you charge on ahead and do incredibly silly things, even to the point of producing entirely convoluted and illegal code which will never work in a million years without warning you once of the error of your ways.

Having Dreamweaver and knowing how to use it are two different things, and the 'helpful' frameset templates are a great example of where Dreamweaver can only help you along if you understand the technology and concepts you are trying to implement.

Now, if you only have 5 successfully published pages I see no reason why converting those to static single pages could be considered a chore. At worst it's a few minutes work.

That said, if you are dead set on continuing with frames (your choice) I can't offer any direct help at all without one or more links to your problem pages to try and diagnose the problem.

I still say the issue is very likely to do with how you have names your files. About 99% of all frames issues centre on how the parent frame is named and how it subsequently calls its child pages to build browser output.

Here's a link to a "getting started with frames" type article - the fact that it is for Dreamweaver 3 and 4 and that the current version is 9 assuming you have CS3 should give a pretty clear indication of how antiquated frames are click here

I still find it ironic that a market leading product will create unusable pages by default unless you know enough to tell it not to.

  jacobjohn7 10:11 20 Jun 2008

Thanks all for your help.. Re-done it as a static page, which works fine. If anyone as any mega link for optimisation (i done all the biggies) and help on adsense then that would be great.. looks like a US account, is that right for the UK for payments? Thanks once more for time taken to think about my querie. Appreciated..

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