combining wireless and lan ?

  greybeard 18:46 22 Dec 2005

I have a wireless link from one pc using xp on an ad-hoc network to a second pc running 98se.
This, in turn, is on a lan net wired to a third pc also running 98se.
At the moment the 1st system and 3rd can't see each other, but both are seen by the 2nd.
(for "seen" read full file and printer sharing )
Is it possible for the first to have access to the third ?
If so, how, without installing more hardware ?

  mgmcc 22:42 22 Dec 2005

I am assuming that PC1 is connected to the internet and running Internet Connection Sharing?

Your problem is that PC1 and PC2 are connected in one subnet and PC2 and PC3 are connected in a different subnet. PC2 is networked with both of the others and can therefore communicate with them. PC1 and PC3 being in different subnets cannot communicate.

Had PC2 been the XP PC, "bridging" the two network adapters might have overcome the problem, that option isn't available in 98SE.

To explain:

If PC1 has Internet Connection Sharing enabled, its Wireless Network Connection will have the IP address and PC2's IP address will be in the same range (subnet).

PC2's Local Area Connection for the "wired" LAN will be in a subnet with a different number in the third octet of the IP address, for example and it is the Subnet Mask of which prevents the and subnets from communicating.

Changing the Subnet Mask throughout to should allow subnets with a different third octet in the address to communicate. To do this, however, requires that you manually configure the IP addressing and this might prevent Internet Connection Sharing from working. In any case, PC3 is unlikely to have internet access without being networked directly with the ICS "Host" PC.

  greybeard 23:10 22 Dec 2005

Many thanks for coming to my aid yet again mgmcc.
I follow your explanation, ok.
However, I am not intending to allow access of the two 98se pcs to the internet. Only pc1 is allowed access, and I have not enabled internet sharing (as far as I know !)In fact I switch the wireless card on pc1 off when I go online.
Do I infer from your posting that I might be successful in getting all three to communicate offline if I give pc3 the adjacent ip to pc2, i.e. pc2 +1 in the fourth octet and the same subnet mask as the other two ?


  mgmcc 23:20 22 Dec 2005

Yes, if the internet isn't involved, try giving the four network adapters individual addresses within the range, using the subnet mask, and see what happens.

  greybeard 22:28 30 Dec 2005

I tried the above settings having got the laptop(pc1 running XP2) wireless network to pc2(98se), and a LAN network between pc2 and pc3 (98se).
All this off-line. Before going on-line I turn the wireless card off.

No luck, in fact everything went pear shaped. Everything stopped talking to everything else.
As pc2 has no cd writer nor even a floppy on it I was getting suddenly desperate.
I eventually managed to get the LAN up and running again, even though during the process, I've changed the user name on pc2 from the previous owner to my own. Now it insists on a password at log on. I've tried deleting .pwl files, and using 'Enter' at log on to get rid of it but to no avail. However this is only a minor irritation at the moment.

I then started on the wireless net, and slowly dug myself deeper and deeper in to a hole, not being able to sort out all the variations in possible settings. I've found most of the help files only slightly better than the documentation that comes with the hardware ie completely confusing as they often never completely match what is on screen.
I then decided to try a system restore on the XP pc, but surprise surprise - it didn't work.
I tried several of the highlighted dates, and different entries on the same day. I even tried back before the wireless card was installed, but that was refused as well.

I then went back to the problem and tried to clear all the details of previous network attempts, and to start again. Not very straight forward, but I finally succeeded.

Briefly yesterday, I managed to get the wireless network running again, and moved some files across ok. I was using and .2, and as IP's and subnet mask respectively.

But today the wireless network doesn't work.

Nor does system restore.

I would rather not have to go back to a complete reinstall of XP if I can avoid it as I only have the Toshiba OEM rescue disks, and will try to solve each problem one at a time, if that is possible.

Is it ?

(Exists left, looking for a large G and T)

  greybeard 22:38 30 Dec 2005

To new readers -
I'm still only concerned with using my networks off line, and all addresses are within my NAV firewall as before.

  mgmcc 23:54 30 Dec 2005

Something which might be worth trying, although I don't know if it will let PC1 and PC3 talk to each other, is to use IPX/SPX protocol instead of TCP/IP. This is not an "internet-compatible" protocol, so you wouldn't have to disable the network when going online, it doesn't require any configuration like TCP/IP and it isn't affected by firewalls (which are TCP/IP based).

To install "IPX/SPX/NetBIOS Compatible Transport Protocol" in Windows XP, go into the Network Connections folder, right click the Local Area Connection and select Properties. In the General tab, click the Install button. In the next box, highlight Protocol and click Add. Select "NWLink IPX/SPX/NetBIOS Compatible Transport Protocol" and click OK.

In Windows 98, in Network Properties (right click Network Neighborhood and select Properties), click the "Add" button. In the next box, select Protocol and click "Add". In the next again box, highlight Microsoft in the left window and then IPX/SPX- compatible Protocol in the right window, then click OK. Back in the main Network Properties, highlight the IPX/SPX entry that relates to your network adapter and select Properties. In the NetBIOS tab, tick the box for "I want to enable etc.." and click OK. With Windows 98, you will need to reboot the computer after making changes to the Network Properties.

  greybeard 00:17 31 Dec 2005

especially for spelling it out so clearly.
I'll get some shut -eye, and give it a try in the clear light of day (possibly!).

  mgmcc 11:21 31 Dec 2005

I have tried to emulate your setup by connecting PC1 (Win XP) to PC2 (Win 98SE) via an Ad Hoc wireless network and then PC2 to PC3 (in my case an XP laptop) by crossover cable, all using IPX/SPX protocol and it was very problematical.

PC1 to PC2 worked like a dream over the wireless link, but I couldn't get PC2 and PC3 to communicate at all. I then installed NetBEUI protocol in all three, which was slightly better in that PC1 and PC2 could communicate as could PC2 and PC3 but they took a while to recognise one another. PC1 and PC3 didn't see each other at all and I don't think there is any way they will by using two network adapters in PC2 - there is no way for the traffic to cross over between the two separate networks. I even tried going back to TCP/IP and allocating four IP addresses with consecutive numbers, but PCs 1 & 3 just don't see each other.

Realistically, to get all three talking, you will need to have them all in a single network, either by connecting them all to a network hub/switch by ethernet cable or by installing a wireless network adapter in the third PC and adding it to your existing Ad Hoc wireless network.

  greybeard 12:44 31 Dec 2005

...but then it probably is.
I haven't had time to try out your last suggestion yet as I've spent the morning bottling up wine for visitors.
Sampling it first, of course.
May I wish you a Happy New Year I:)>

  greybeard 17:23 31 Dec 2005

I set up the ipx/spx protocol as suggested, and pc1 and pc2 are talking. I've just brought down an interesting utility called Everest from pc2 to pc1, so it works. Thanks for your help. I'm now looking at the other problems that have appeared, seemingly coincedental. I've created two restore points, one before the ipx/spx change and one after.
Tomorrow, head being clear enough, I'll set up a third restore point before trying to restore to this present condition. If I still have no restore available, I'll start another thread.
If the wireless net fails, I'll post later.
Thanks again.

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