So much for the security of chip and pin !!

  ripvan 05:57 26 Dec 2008

Both my wife and I have been the victims of debit card fraud over the last few months.This despite the fact that we don't give out our pin numbers.Hers was for about £100 at Tesco express in Seacroft near Leeds and wasn't noticed until she looked at her statement,But Nat West refunded it in no time.Mine was worse, £350 at PC World in Liverpool and £75 in PC World in Wirral but when they tried to spend £250 in Tesco where it was refused.This unusual spending pattern triggered an automated phone call to me asking me to phone the fraud centre for RBS.I have now got my money back aswell.However my point is what is the point of the so called security of chip and pin.It seems that these transactions were allowed by the buyer signing rather than using C+P.Also where did they get both our details from.We are generally very careful using cash machines etc.It seems also that PC World will have to stand the cost as RBS will claim it off them as they allowed whoever it was to sign rather than C+P.It is reassuring to know that there are computers out there scanning for such things and helping stop the fraud but we never had this problem all the years we used to have to sign cheques!! And it still means there is some scally out there enjoying his new laptop or whatever and will probably never be caught and is no doubt already using someone elses card in the chaos of the sales as I write this.
happy new year to everyone.

  wiz-king 08:15 26 Dec 2008

It can happen:- a staff member can copy the card number, some stores receipts still have the full card number printed on them, the card readers can be tampered with; there are many ways a card number can be obtained. If the stores take the risk of not using the PIN then they have to pay a higher transaction charge to the card company but many will do this to make a sale. It is the same with telephone and Internet payments, if you do not have the security number from the back of the card the the retailer will be charged extra by the card company and be liable for fraudulent transactions.

  Forum Editor 10:24 26 Dec 2008

You say that all these transactions were 'signed for', which means that whoever carried out the fraud must have had cloned copies of both cards - they would need a card with a signature on it so it could be verified at the till.

It happens, but it's a weird coincidence that both your wife and you had your cards cloned within a few months. The lesson here is never to let your card out of your sight.

  Bald Eagle 10:35 26 Dec 2008

The lesson here is never to let your card out of your sight.

Driving up the M5 at night the only way I could buy fuel was by leaving my card behind the counter on a clipboard whilst I filled up to stop me driving away without paying. The fact that they had a number plate camera also seemed overkill!

  AL47 11:44 26 Dec 2008

i wouldve told them where to stick it

  spuds 12:29 26 Dec 2008

It is indeed strange that we have all the lectures about chip and pin, yet some retailers and safeguards apparently doesn't seem to favour this.

Recently I have had problems with a new credit card and a debit card. In the case of the debit card, I gave the incorrect pin number and the card was locked/blocked, but this didn't stop the very well known store accepting the sale via a signature. I also have a store card for a well known high street retailer, and again the store facility doe's not cater for chip and pin, but signature only. Strange really, because the store facility accepts pin and chip with 'normal' debit and credit card transactions, even Nectar points.

Another point of interest was the unlocking/unblocking of the debit card. Called in the bank and gave an whole lot of details, which resulted in two 'security' letters from the bank about unlocking/unblocking the card. Yet had I gone into any bank with a ATM machine, I could have unlocked the card myself, using the previous pin details, within minutes. Apparently there was no point ingoing into the bank in the the first instant. Would mention that the bank did try a sales promotion regarding loans and insurances, so perhaps all was not in vain, even though I rejected their 'special customer' offer.

  jimmybond 13:41 26 Dec 2008

"i wouldve told them where to stick it"

Yeah, he could tell them just before he set off walking home up the M5 ;-)

  sunnystaines 15:15 26 Dec 2008

put photo and thumb print on the card. the photo to compare at the till to the user, and the user puts a thumb print on a shop kept receipt so if still dodgy the investigators have a print to start with.

all the above as well as chip and pin which is easily cloned and copied.

  spuds 16:38 26 Dec 2008

I remember years ago, when credit and debit cards were a new thing,and Comet use to take a Polaroid photograph of the person tendering the card.

Bit like a police mug-shot line-up. I don't think anyone bothered to found out, whatever happened to 'the evidence'.

At the same time, I was offering my early stage new Barclaycard in far-away places, and it was a case of a curious look, and "that will do nicely".

  tullie 19:04 26 Dec 2008

A lot of countries still have only the strip to swipe,no chip and pin.

  sebiven 19:44 26 Dec 2008

Call me old fashioned if you like but scammers have one hell of a problem in cloning a £20 note!

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