I need your opinions about this.........

  Forum Editor 16:34 17 Jun 2004

for an article I'm preparing for the magazine. All contributions will be gratefully received, but say so if you would rather not have your name mentioned in print.

"Established biometric vendor Veritouch has teamed up with Swedish design company to produce iVue: a wireless media player that allows content producers to lock down media files with biometric security. This week Veritouch announced that it had demonstrated the device to the RIAA and MPAA.
In practical terms, VeriTouch's breakthrough in anti-piracy technology means that no delivered content to a customer may be copied, shared or otherwise distributed because each file is uniquely locked by the customer's live fingerprint scan".

What do you think - is this an encouraging development along the road to piracy control, or yet another example of the music industry considering a blunt instrument to try to solve a complex problem?

  That Bloke 16:44 17 Jun 2004

I think that it is doomed to failure. One of the problems with Digital Media is that the industry is attempting to lock it's use down more than traditional systems.

The entire anti-piracy situation is analogous to the Warhead vs Armour description. In the end, the Warhead (i.e. Pirate) will win.

The Music Industry need to balance the ability for consumers to use a product they have bought flexibly, whilst preventing illegal copying. I don't think that this will help in either direction.

  siliconbits 16:57 17 Jun 2004

For it to work, people should buy it first... Which I doubt very much.. Even if it was imposed on us, other companies would gain instant market domination by offering products without any copy limit...

  Jarvo 17:31 17 Jun 2004

I could not be bothered to buy such a player, all I want is to Buy/download a CD and be able to listen to it on my HI FI, laptop and phone.

The record industry is so wrapped up in trying to copy protect its music its forgetting that most people want to use it legitimately. Not so long ago I used to tape my Cd's for use in the car, now I burn a copy for the car (after having a few hundred pounds worth of Cd's nicked from the car). Now I know that this in both cases is illegal but I am still using it for my own use.

Now if I had to buy a new computer/car stereo/ phone or biometric pads for all, I would just not buy the music. I think that the record industry is going to far and is going to see a decline in sales, not because of copying but because the user wants to use multiple devices with ease.

we are already at the stage where you can buy a CD that is copy protected but that CD will not play in a CD player because the CD player conforms to the CD industry red book standard and the copy protected CD dose not! If I buy a CD I should reasonably expect it to work on any CD player and If I download music I should expect to be able to make a CD that will play on any CD player and play on any MP3 player without hindrance.

Fine go for the big file sharers and mass copiers but please give the legitimate user a break.


  wee eddie 17:36 17 Jun 2004

I assume that a Live Finger Print Scan is needed to play the product for the first time. The product only being playable on the presentation of an identical scan.

That side sounds feasible. Getting folk to buy it is the next problem.

If the Marketing Dept. work on the "carrot and stick" basis and the product is sufficiently cheaper to be attractive. Then it may work.

However if the product is only a few % cheaper I doubt that it will take off. Possibly 50% off the Apple price would work.

  €dstowe 18:58 17 Jun 2004

The whole copy protection idea falls into uselessness by just the tiniest of thoughts.

The geeks and whiz kids in the protection industry, even in most of the computer industry and seem unable to conceive of anything other than digital systems.

It should always be borne in mind that we, as human beings are not digital beings. Our senses use analogue interpretations of stimuli and all digital creations of sound and vision have to be converted to an analogue format for us to appreciate them.

It is easy to convert the digital image - be that audio, video or a combination - to analogue. From what I stated above, it has to be done otherwise it is a waste of time. After this conversion the analogue format can be manipulated in any way you wish at the same time removing any protective measures that may have been applied to the digital signals. It can then even be converted it back to digital. All anti-piracy measures are either lost in the conversion or can be removed when in analogue format.

This forum is constantly being asked about how to remove anti-piracy measures and copy protection. I doesn't require much thought to move away from the idea that digital methods are the saviours of mankind and that no other system exists. Well, take it from me - analogue has been around since the beginning of time, digital is but an embryo in the evolution of the world.

  Falkyrn 19:13 17 Jun 2004

Another problem with this idea is that it would appear to tie the player (and presumably then the music) down to an individual.

To put it plainly I could listen to the music but no other member of my family could unless I accessed the unit first for them.

This is not a case of using a sledgehammer to crack a walnut more like trying to use a pneumatic drill.

  Forum Editor 19:22 17 Jun 2004

Just what I need, and thank you. Anybody think that biometrics has a future in music copyright protection?

  Simsy 19:36 17 Jun 2004

and for once I read the other posts before responding...

€dstowe has written exactly what I would have done. There may be a detterent factor caused by the fact that it would need to be done in real time, rather than at the fast speeds that digital technology allows, but it is a way round it.

Second question, "Anybody think that biometrics has a future in music copyright protection?" I suspect that short term it may be probed more, but again, it doesn't take much thought to see the snags for users trying to be legitimate...

I buy a CD, say, for the whole family, or for my freinds to listen to... how many folk need to be metered? It might, (stress might!), be more appropriate to tie something to a location, i.e. abode, or vehicle, or player, in a similar way that XP is tied to a machine... but biometrics.. I suspect not.



  Totally-braindead 19:38 17 Jun 2004

I think its simply too expensive, who in there right mind will buy something that is more expensive and will not allow you to view it or play it without a fingerprint. Forgetting the cost aspect for a moment its unreasonable to sell a CD or a DVD that only one person can play. If you are married and you buy a DVD would you like to explain to the wife that she can't watch the film unless you are there. I don't think so. Biometrics will not be any use for copyright protection that I can see in the immediate future.

  961 19:38 17 Jun 2004

I've no doubt it has, because the entertainment industry is desperate to limit what it regards as piracy, and will try anything to prevent it.

However, what it seems unable (or unwilling) to do is take on the big time pirates. Those in Russia and China who are making big bucks selling software and music for a fraction of the price charged here.

Eventually, limitation of the usefulness of products result in the customer stopping buying. A cd that can't be played on a computer or a car stereo is no good to many. The result is that sales fall even further

Biometric fingerprints and eye scans may stop you passing a (legit) cd to someone else but I don't quite see them preventing the guy with the video camera filming the latest blockbuster or, indeed, the bloke on the inside of the production company smuggling a copy out to the far east before the film is launched

And this is without going into the question of whether the music on cd's is up to strength at the moment anyway

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