Cannot check before signing for delivery!!

  MidgetMan 10:59 22 Sep 2004

The small company that I work for frequently order computer components on-line with various company's, we always check the contents before signing for the goods and have had no problems with the couriers over this in the past.

However on Monday we had a delivery by Amtrak and the driver would not let us check the goods before signing, saying that we had to sign for the parcel as unchecked and refused to leave it unless we did this. We argued that if the goods were missing/damaged then we would have trouble with the sender proving that this was the case. His reply was tough! it would be between us and the supplier. In the end he refused to leave the parcel and it was returned to Planet Micro.

We spoke to Planet Micro who confirmed that the goods were to be checked before signing and they resent the parcel via City Link. This arrived this morning and lo and behold the driver would not let us check the contents before signing!!!. We confirmed with City Link head office that this is now the policy as if we checked it and contents were missing etc and we reused it then the parcel had to be returned to the sender opened, and they would get the blame!!!!.

Bearing in mind that there have been threads in the past that have involved disputes between sender/recipient over missing goods when the parcel was not checked before signing, where do we stand now?, a bit of catch 22 really, cannot check and cannot prove goods were missing!!

  Dorsai 11:31 22 Sep 2004

I used to work for a Mazda dealer, and all the parts delivery from Mazda UK came by TNT. We always signed the slip 'unchecked' or 'advised 40 boxes, recieved 39' or 'one box broken open' ETC.

The del frequently ran to 30 or 40 seperate boxes, and maybe 200 different items. Needless to say the TNT driver did not want to wait for 2 hours while we checked off the del against the advice note.

Legally i dont know where you would stand, but i never had a problem for claiming for missing parts.

The asumption was that as the driver won't wait for you to check it, they have to take your word about missings bits.

  MidgetMan 11:46 22 Sep 2004

get your point about the large number of goods in your case,

it was'nt that the driver would not wait, it is more the point that they will not let you check unless you have already signed for it!!!

  MidgetMan 12:18 22 Sep 2004

Taken from terms & conditions of Amtrak
"17.4.2 where a claim for damage to a consignment has been made, and the said damage has not been noted at the point of delivery, any such claim will not be accepted." How can they say this if they will not let you check before signing!

  speedy12 12:27 22 Sep 2004

I know this doesn't relate closely the original post, but i thought i'd let you know my bad experience with amtrak yesterday...

You wont believe this but they delivered my £2,000 computer to the wrong address yesterday - IDIOTS. Was delivered to them at 1pm and i got the machine back at 8.30pm. The police were informed since the owners werent opening the door (and were inside). I and the courier driver left a note saying the police have been notified and the house holders phoned us back hours later to come and pick up the machine. They gave me the dumbest excuse ever, and the stickers with my address on had been ripped off the boxes by these crooks.

To cut a long story short, i have my machine back after this nightmare.

amtrak.. a VERY bad experience!... :@

  spuds 12:35 22 Sep 2004

I use a number of courier services per month, City Link being one of the main delivery source with perhaps Amtrak coming in third place. In all cases we sign 'Goods Not Checked' 'Unexamined' or 'Damaged Box/Parcel'. This as been exceptable to all parties, including the retailer/supplier of the goods.You cannot expect a courier to wait around for whatever time it takes, whilst you sort out the contents of your order.

Only once did we have a problem with a supplier, but when we asked for confirmation as to their despatch quality control checks, and also strongly hinted that we could get alternative supplies from another supplier if their attitude didn't change, we found that the matter was soon resolved.Another point of interest, was the past practise of certain suppliers and couriers wanting us to take out goods in transit insurance, to safeguard their delivery. No way did we except this, as far as we were concerned it was the suppliers and couriers responsibility to safeguard the goods en-route. This extra cash incentive never really did take on, and most companies discontinued the 'try-on'.

I would mention that DHL have an arrangement for depatching items abroad. They will arrive at your premises,check and pack the items in their container/box/parcel and complete all the necessary paperwork. The onus is on them for safe delivery.A timed tracking system is also provided. Great service.

  pj123 13:06 22 Sep 2004

I have never had a problem signing a delivery as:

"Delivered, but not checked" except with Amtrak.
I now do not buy anything from suppliers who use Amtrak as their courier.

  It's Me 15:44 22 Sep 2004

When my PC. didn't arrive on the due date I phoned the supplier who couldn't understand. They gave me Amtrak's number.

I phoned and found myself in a full blown argument with the driver who had tried to deliver my PC. to the wrong address,( luckily they were out,) and he told me that that was where I lived, described the house to me and refused to believe that I knew where I lived. Only by telling him that I had lived here for 35 years and that I could see the house he had been to and say who did live there, could I convince him to deliver the PC the next day, Even then he had to phone so as to find us.

Payment in washers with no holes in come to mind.

But why these sellers employ such deliverers can only because of costs, for they must do their reputations no good.

  SEASHANTY 15:50 22 Sep 2004

Agree. You cannot expect drivers to hang around whilst you check the parcel if it contains several items. The delivery system would be all to hell.
Just sign as unchecked. That's what I do and that should be sufficient.

  oresome 18:01 22 Sep 2004

Re spuds comments, many suppliers terms and conditions claim that the goods become your risk as soon as they are despatched and that they are sent on your behalf.

Nevertheless, I have have not experienced difficulty in exchanging goods when telling a supplier that they have arrived damaged.

I agree that it's impracticable to open and examine goods whilst a courier waits. But state on the receipt that they have been accepted unexamined and note any damage to the carton.

  Dorsai 20:49 22 Sep 2004

All i can suggest..

If doubtful about it, ask for the supplier to confirm in writing who is liable, and what degree of proof is required, for short shipments.

If they wont put in in black and white, or the terms put the onus on you, dont buy from them and tell them that you will not buy from them for this reason. They will only change their policy if they find it is costing then custom.

I am lucky, and have not had a problem with stuff missing to start with.

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