BT charges

  Graham. 09:13 09 Feb 2009

Just so you know :-) click here

  hastelloy 10:42 09 Feb 2009

I don't pay them for anything else.

  spuds 11:45 09 Feb 2009

I suppose that increases were already on the cards, when BT offered free 0870 and 0845 services. Then of course, they lost some line rentals, due to some ISP's offering this in a package deal, at cheaper rates than BT were offering.

With the service increases, I wonder if some ISP's are going to get more reluctant about fault finding at customers premises through BT's old and worn-out infrastructure, if BT OpenReach engineers are called in.

When I had a BT Broadband OpenReach engineer call-out by my ISP (Tiscali), it appeared as though Tiscali had 'contracted-out' the engineer for a full day,possibly two in that week, as all his other calls were all for Tiscali and in a 30/40 mile radius of my home.

  Graham. 13:29 09 Feb 2009

BT OpenReach maintain and repair the copper network on behalf of BT and all unbundled companies.

As these unbundled companies and ISPs have to pay BT if they raise a fault which then incurs a charge, they may be reluctant to do so.

  961 16:47 09 Feb 2009

Since BT do as Graham says, maintain my line to the exchange from my house, why would I want to try to save money by paying someone else to "buy" that service from BT, sell it to me at a cheaper price, and then, if it goes pear shaped (along with all the other lines in the area) try to get BT to repair it. Usually at a time when the wind is howling, the snow is blowing, the roads are blocked and all the rest of it

Which line is BT going to fix first?

Me, who pay them the going rate?

or Joe down the road, who pays another provider and saves £1 per month?

  oresome 20:39 09 Feb 2009

961 asks "why would I want to do it"

I'll try and give an answer.

The regulator is encouraging you to do it in order to open up the market for fixed line telecoms.

If it were the case that the other service providers couldn't offer the line rental as part of the package, but had to send you to a competitor, i.e. BT for this, BT would then use it as a golden opportunity to win all the business for themselves. Plus it's extra hassle for a potential customer to deal with two providers for the one service and pay two bills. Not very good when you're trying to introduce competition into the market.

I pay my line rental to Tiscali along with a fee for the other services provided. I have one point of contact for faults and I'm not interested where the fault lies providing it's before the master telephone point. I'm simply paying for a service and if it's not provided to that point Tiscali have to sort it out.

What do you do if you have a problem and BT say the fault is not down to them and the ISP say that there side of things is OK, have you tried BT?

With Tiscali, I say I'm paying you for the complete service, please sort it!

  961 11:15 10 Feb 2009

I understand and agree with that

I did I look into changing to one supplier, instead of BT for the line rental, Sky for voice calls, and a third supplier as ISP

What I found was that the terms and conditions regarding repair times for the phone line were considerably longer than at BT and were hedged with phrases such as "we will TRY to repair your line within 5 WORKING days..."

I can understand that in town this may be academic, but out in the country at some distance from the exchange it is not. Introducing a further link in the repair chain wherein the supplier gets on to BT openreach via call centres etc is not a good idea, particularly bearing in mind that the saving was less than £1 per month

  spuds 11:57 10 Feb 2009

I was originally with BT and used their Surftime deal in conjunction with Lineone (now Tiscali). Financially this was not a good deal, because I was paying two companies for providing a joint communications and connecting service. When Tiscali followed Talk Talk in producing a 'free line rental' package, I jumped at the offer, because I was saving approx £14.00 a month.In other words, the line rental did actually come in free, as did certain free weekend telephone calls, if I wanted to use them.

I will admit, that having problems and dealing with Tiscali can lead to headaches and frustration, but I have also had problems with BT when call-out fees have been suggested, or writing to BT customer services. In an episode that I had last year, getting help from Tiscali overseas call centre was a major problem, that was until I contacted Tiscali CEO direct, and UK help from then on was in abundance.

One major obstacle with the Tiscali 'all in one' package is the non-availability of a 100 operator service for minor complaints or requirements. Tiscali were going to see about adding this service, but as to present time, I do not think any more as been done on that subject.

With regards of Tiscali using BT OpenReach as a contractor. I found Tiscali were able to get a broadband engineer on my property the next day, with promises of further prompt visit if necessary. If you look at it in a logical way, I am sure BT would be more than willing to contract their labour force out, at the going rate, than use their staff solely on BT 'own usage, perhaps free of charge service rates'.

  961 12:23 10 Feb 2009

Yes, I agree if that was an option I'd be in the queue as well

However, we are never going to get unbundling here and so, having got the broadband down to £10 and the voice calls to £5 (free 24/7 inc Europe etc) the ability to save much by going to one supplier is pretty limited

The thing is, the broadband has worked faultlessly since installation about 5 years ago. It's the physical copper wire that goes awol!

  spuds 13:26 10 Feb 2009

Funny that you should mention copper wire. From the nearest telegraph pole to the eave of my home is a fairly new (5 years!) multi-stranded cable. From the eave into the property is a 39 year old copper double strand cable, which I suspected was the main culprit for the problems that I was having. Apparently the BT engineer couldn't find a problem, so didn't arrange for another BT engineer to make one single cable from telegraph pole to the inside main box.All my neighbours have one cable from pole to main socket inside premises.

He stated that from the exchange to my home or wherever, the infrastructure is one of constant poor cabling and many connections or repairs. And on that basis he said it didn't really matter who provides the telephone service, because its dependent on BT's infrastructure, which most connections are, excluding cable and satellite.

I must admit though, that the BT broadband engineer did provide a completely new and independent broadband connection plus independent telephone system within the property. But he still insisted that his tests were 'within limits' for the 20'0" of old copper wire to remain in-situ.Something that Tiscali may consider to replace at a later date, if further faults re-appear.

  Graham. 15:09 10 Feb 2009

If there is the slightest doubt about the condition of the internal part of your connection, the BT engineer is obliged to replace it with one continuous cable from the master socket to the DP (Distribution Point) pole. This may not be the nearest one, so it may travel some distance via other poles.

He has to enter the fact on closing the fault. If he indicates he has not renewed the cable, he has to state the reason, and his manager will receive an alert.

Of course, 'he' may be a she.

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